Sad, Dark Night or what?

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

Mike Gee — Sat, 01 May 2010 11:27:38 GMT

Thanks a lot, Jackson!

It actually struck me after cooling down ;-) that I have probably been here before with the rocking, suspended in air, sensation some time ago.

It's just that then I just thought of it as "Ok,. sometimes you feel funny things meditating, and that's cool."
But now I've found out that there are maps, and that they actually can signify something.
That's probably why I got so excited.

Thanks for giving me some orientation!!

Interesting to see where I go next.

/Mike

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

Jackson Wilshire — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:44:57 GMT

Hey Mike,

Headaches, back pains, swaying, and expanding are all symptoms of what could be termed kundalini energy blockages. This type of stuff is very common during the Three Characteristics stage (3rd ñana). It's like there's an energy build-up taking place, which reaches its climax in the A&P (4th ñana) , and is released (mostly) after the A&P is crossed, which brings on the Dissolution stage (5th ñana).

So that's what it sounds like is happen for you, in my opinion. Keep noting, quickly if possible, and don't get worried about the pains and swaying. It won't last forever.

~Jackson

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

Mike Gee — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:15:37 GMT

Hi, all.
I just have to ask if anyone cares to elaborate further with me

Today I had a pretty short sit, 20 minutes. I began with some concentration, focusing on the breath.
Not feeling great concentration, but steadier. I did this a short time.

Then I switched to noting, and almost immediately that feeling of my mind or head expanding came upon me.
One thing was different. I have sometimes noticed a beeping sound in the background, thinking this was tinnitus or something (maybe it is?).
However, I noticed this and the expanding feeling, and the sound just grew in strength together with the expansion. It almost felt as if the expanse was filled with the beep (make sense?).
And at times in this intense sound the character was more of white noise than a beep (like I had a very loud TV in my head).
It felt so intense that I actually wondered whether I could take it.

Needless to say, I was quite intrigued and amazed. And although this feeling + sound kind of drowned out everything (including my noting), and I think I was thinking a lot about it, it just continued to grow.
Even though I had a slight fear of not being able to stand it, I stayed with it.

After a while I noticed this slight throbbing sensation beneath my forehead. It was there, I noticed it (when I remembered to), but it subsided after a while.

And enter the weirdest thing. I felt like my whole body (even though I could sense my physical body was quite still) started rocking back and forth at a frequency maybe two times that of my breath. It felt like the rocking was around an axis and I was suspended in air kind of.
This REALLY got me amazed. And I think finally I was to caught up in thinking about what was happening, because it all went away and I was just there sitting with a slight back ache, till the session ended.

Now, is this my mind playing tricks, or is this something that can be interpreted as something?

Thanks again for bearing with me, and I value all input!!

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

Mike Gee — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:10:09 GMT

Thanks for the poem, C C C!

Stay in there with the practice. I will, but I am just unsure of where I am along the maps

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

C C C — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 03:33:24 GMT

Maybe check out the symptoms of depression on Google if you don't know them already. My study of depression indicates that anhedonia is the most defining feature of clinical depression. I've had it badly for 20+yers.

Occasionally I get the same "hmm, maybe I'm in Dark Night territory", but without having experienced anything like M&B or A&P, I think I'm fooling myself. Completely. But I note that you could be in a different place to me entirely - it's just that it sounds very like my experience -just some sensations of expansion of awareness, that's it.

I'm starting to come face-to-face with some horribly frightening and painful feelings during meditations. I try to switch immediately to the sensations they create in my body. My old style was to figure out how to 'fix' them, thereby creating another layer of suffering.

I quite like this Rumi poem for my own reflection:

The Guest House

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they're a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.

Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

Jackson Wilshire — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:04:38 GMT

Hey Mike, glad I could help.

I think you're on the right track. What's your experience like before the expanding feeling? During? After? What else is happening besides expanding and contracting?

Be sure to reflect on this stuff after your practice period, not during. Just continue to note whatever is happening in your experience. Stopping to reflect can hault the whole process.

Practice well.
~Jackson

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

Mike Gee — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:53:23 GMT

Hi!
Thanks! It helps a lot. One follow-up question:

Jackson "awouldbehipster" Wilshire:

The feeling of expansion you felt may have been early A&P (the 4th ñana), but it was stopped for whatever reason. If this starts to happen again, just keep noting and see what happens.

This entire thing with this expanding feeling is very familiar to me. It comes to me once in a while while meditating.
If it were early A&P, could it be that I would stop it like this time after another?

I haven't seen any correlation, but maybe I should note if these "sadness after meditating"-episodes always follow after this expanding thing?

Or of course, as you say, could just be sadness for some other reason.

Thanks again
/Mike

RE: Sad, Dark Night or what?

Jackson Wilshire — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:46:09 GMT

Mi Mike,

Could just be regular old frustration, sadness, or mild depression. That's always a possibility. However...

Mike Gee:

Yesterday, during meditation (I do noting most of the time with some concentration in the beginning) I felt this great calm come over me (familiar sensation). It gets very calm, and my mind (or head?) feels like it's expanding and sort of encompassing a large area. But for some reason suddenly I interrupted my meditation and didn't go back.

Anyways, jump to today. I felt in kind of a sad mood all day, and I sat down and meditated.
And the sadness just took over. I noted breath, sadness, etc. And my mind was very unruly today, I just flew all over the place mindwise, and forgot to note most of the time. And I just felt like this great depression come over me paired with the co-occurring
pain in my back (I always have an ache in my back), so I just bailed out. Got up and left.

Reading this makes me think that the funk you're in could be a resulting of getting stuck in the 3rd insight stage (or ñana), "Three Characteristics." This stage is quite uncomfortable, which can be very disconcerting to the yogi going through it. This is one of the more common stages that I get stuck in when starting a brand new cycle. The feeling of expansion you felt may have been early A&P (the 4th ñana), but it was stopped for whatever reason. If this starts to happen again, just keep noting and see what happens.

There's also the possibility that you've already crossed the A&P, and that the transition you described was actually from 10th ñana (Re-Observation) into 11th ñana (Equanimity). I think this is less likely, however. Call it a hunch.

I could be wrong in either case. Continue to practice well, and see if that alone will get you over this unpleasant hurtle in your practice.

Mike Gee:

If it sounds like it is, then why aren't there any vibrations or lights, or whatever (beforehand)?
Then again, I am not very much into the metaphysical in that sense. I am not that interested in strange manifestations and weird powers, so maybe I just don't work that way...

There's nothing metaphysical about the A&P. The lights, raptures, and energetic experiences are phenomenological descriptions. It's just what a lot of people happen to experience when one's practice leads to this point. You don't have to interpret it as anything spiritual or divine or anything.

I hope this is helpful. Keep up the good work.
~Jackson

Sad, Dark Night or what?

Mike Gee — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:28:26 GMT

Hi.
After being around a while now, I thought I'd add to the "where am I now" threads.

As I've earlier mentioned, I don't remember any A&P crossing.
I've been meditating for a couple of years more or less daily with some shorter retreats interspersed (however first zazen was 20 yrs ago).

Now I am in a state where I often feel pretty calm when meditating, and not that very concentrated, but to some degree.
I have found myself in a place (I've been here before), where I am either very sad AFTER meditating (often for about 30 minutes), and at times irritable (as in I snap at people near me and have a very short fuse again AFTER meditating).

Yesterday, during meditation (I do noting most of the time with some concentration in the beginning) I felt this great calm come over me (familiar sensation). It gets very calm, and my mind (or head?) feels like it's expanding and sort of encompassing a large area. But for some reason suddenly I interrupted my meditation and didn't go back.

Anyways, jump to today. I felt in kind of a sad mood all day, and I sat down and meditated.
And the sadness just took over. I noted breath, sadness, etc. And my mind was very unruly today, I just flew all over the place mindwise, and forgot to note most of the time. And I just felt like this great depression come over me paired with the co-occurring
pain in my back (I always have an ache in my back), so I just bailed out. Got up and left.

Now... Having read the descriptions, I don't even recognize having been at body & mind to be honest.

Is this dark night, or am I just sad and the frustration of not being able to meditate properly aggravates the whole deal?

If it sounds like it is, then why aren't there any vibrations or lights, or whatever (beforehand)?
Then again, I am not very much into the metaphysical in that sense. I am not that interested in strange manifestations and weird powers, so maybe I just don't work that way...

I am interested in progress of insight though!

And as a final thing, I really don't feel like I've had much in the insight department at all. So maybe I am not even at B&M yet?

Thanks for bearing with my loooong text, and for all your support!