Hello fellows,

A sensible way to check your actual status like one living in virtual freedom or had achieved actual freedom (a definitive neurobiological condition by the way) could be await some months before any "on-a-whim" public announcement.

If what you achieved is the so-called "Actual Freedom", to the body it´s a never-ending process until the physical (biological) death, one in which you continually get better the more the body stay living in it. The case of Justine´s actual freedom discussed in http://groups.google.com.au/group/actualism could be helpful to clarify this point: stillness doesn´t exist in the Actual World (aka material universe).

Maybe I´m wrong, but I think that to be free from the human condition means to learn all your life. Even in regards to a mind without any identity/soul, there are more things that we don´t know. Perfection is utterly impossible. Perfection is a teleological concept. As long as you have a brain, no matter how much the body experiment and discover, some things will always remain beyond awareness, and you need to seek them out. If you think you would come far enough, then you are going to stop your progress right there...
Sincerely,

Luciano

Hmmm the part about stillness seems to contradict Richard's statement (and others) here.



I don't know just wondering, are you claiming to be actually free?

I see that luizcipher is back...

Regards,
Gabriel

There is a stillness perceived this is most evident

cheers
Jeff

Hmmm... If you also start to think without any extra authority behind your mind, probably you will find the same contradictions I found and indicated.

I´m living since two years ago in virtual freedom, and only recently in out-from-control mode.
I just show some errs to my fellows.

Ha... no more unicorns Gabriel!

Regards,
Luciano

Hi Jeff,

I will repeat what I wrote to Tarin on http://groups.google.com.au/group/actualism/:

First, I´m not taoist and/or buddhist.
That "stillness" is only apparent to our mind. Like "perfection", it is a concept, a teleological concept, indeed.
Life is movement, vibration, pulse, change, transformation, combustion and so on. Nothing in the material / physical universe seems to be in a matter/energy stillness state.
Actual freedom is a mutation in the human conscience´s evolutionary scale, and evolution never stop.
The "actual world" discussed here seems to be a stillness mind growing up from subjective experiences.

..."matter is not merely passive", remember?
I will not keep this informations above - also very simple to be confirmed by the senses and directly experienceable by any sensible
person - only with me ;-)
Maybe you are also mistaking eternal time with no movement in the space...

Luciano

in which case, i will reprint, in full and without textual alterations, my reply to you there:


LUCIANO: First, I´m not taoist and/or buddhist.
That "stillness" is only apparent to our mind. Like "perfection", it is a concept, a teleological concept, indeed.

TARIN: the 'stillness' and 'perfection' may indeed be concepts, or teleological concepts, that exist in 'your' mind.

yet, those concepts are not the stillness and perfection which do exist as features of the actual world.

it is good that that 'you' are not a taoist or a buddhist.. and the sooner 'you' are done being a materialist, the sooner 'you' may comprehend the above.

--

LUCIANO: Life is movement, vibration, pulse, change, transformation, combustion and so on. Nothing in the material / physical universe seems to be in a matter/energy stillness state.

TARIN: that is correct; nothing in the material / physical universe is in a matter/energy stillness state.

it is the universe itself that is still.

--

LUCIANO: Actual freedom is a mutation in the human conscience´s evolutionary scale, and evolution never stop.

TARIN: so as to not encourage you to fritter away your time intellectualising, for which you have time and again demonstrated a
strong propensity, i will decline addressing this point and instead recommend that you come back and talk about this particular issue (of what an actual freedom is, or isn't) when you're speaking from the marvellous experience itself rather than a grandiose vision of it. here are the criteria:

you have become actually free ('you' have gone entirely into the oblivion of the actual world).
you experience no affective feelings at all, and so experience no malice or sorrow, or their antidotal pacifiers, love or compassion, or affective felicity.
you experience no feeling of 'i' at all, and thus experience apperceptively, and so experience the infinity and eternity and perpetuity of the universe directly.

though, as experiencing apperceptively is what reveals the stillness i keep talking about (which is clearly currently going over 'your' head), then doing the above as recommended ought to resolve the matter for you.

--

LUCIANO: Maybe you are mistaking eternal time with no movement in the space...

TARIN: no, i am fully cognisant of those movements which, occurring of matter and in space, do nothing to inhibit the *stillness*[1] that the infinitude, which this infinite and *eternal* and perpetual universe actually is, exudes.[2]

--

LUCIANO: I will not keep this informations above - also very simple to be confirmed by the senses and directly experienceable by any sensible person - only with me ;-)
Your "actual world" seems to be a stillness mind growing up from subjective experiences.

TARIN: hmm.. given that it was richard who pointed out the stillness to me in no uncertain terms, i suppose you also think that richard's "'actual world' seems to be a stillness mind growing up from subjective experiences."

if so, then perhaps a re-evaluation of your stance toward actualism - and its goal of actual freedom - is in order?

though, if you are where i suspect you are on the path, you are either already doing that re-evaluation or are extremely resistant to doing it.

it's 'your' call as to whether 'you' let the chips fall where they may (and experience this all unfold), or continue to wrestle 'yourself' for control (and thereby remain in existence), or deem the endeavour unsuitable and renounce it entirely.

tarin

[1] rather, those vibrant motions do much to express the stillness.
[2] exude: To exhibit in abundance.

--

ps. by 'endeavour', above, i meant that of accomplishing an actual freedom.

You forgot -

[1] rather, those vibrant motions do much to express the stillness.
[2] exude: To exhibit in abundance.

I'm very partial to number [1]...

Regards,
Gabriel

thank you, gabriel; i have edited the post to include those footnotes i accidentally omitted.

Thanks for your attention Tarin,

We are not wrestling over words here and there.
You and someone else may be experiencing what Richard is experiencing; that´s not the point.
To put teleological qualities in the universe is a different path, even being sincere and very well meaning.
I don’t know where we’re going either in this discussion.
All I know now is that I recommend for all a safety place and harmonic atmosphere with warmly people around.
Cordially,

Luciano

you're welcome.



whether you are wrestling over words here and there or not, it's 'your' call entirely as to whether 'you' let the chips fall where they may (and experience this all unfold), or continue to wrestle 'yourself' for control (and thereby remain in existence), or deem actual freedom unsuitable and renounce its endeavour entirely.



the point of what? the point of actualism is to come to the end, for oneself, of malice and sorrow (and their antidotal pacifiers) via being's extirpation.. and the point of talking about it is to figure out how to do it/how to get it to happen.

you lose all credibility on the subject when you choose to grandstand your visions and beliefs of what an actual freedom is and isn't without first having accomplished it.



if you had pointed out where anyone in this thread (let alone me) had 'put teleological qualities in the universe' and had thereby indicated what your statement here was made in response to, i would have been able to produce a meaningful reply.

meanwhile, the sooner 'you' are done being a materialist, the sooner 'you' may apperceptively apprehend features of the actual world which are currently clearly going over 'your' head.



hmm.. do you find your own intentions equally obscure?



then here is a word for you:

sin·cer·i·ty
n.
The quality or condition of being sincere; genuineness, honesty, and freedom from duplicity. (emphasis added)

and a relevant note about the word's origin:

The word ‘sincere’ can be traced back to the Latin sincerus, meaning ‘whole’ or ‘pure’ or ‘sound’, and which is arguably derived from the roots ‘sin-’ (one) and ‘crescere’ (to grow) in that the Latin ‘sincerus’ originally referred to a plant which was of pure stock – not a mixture or hybrid – and thus came to mean anything which was genuine (as in ‘true’ or ‘correct’) and not falsified, adulterated, contaminated.[1]


*


so as to not encourage you to fritter away your time intellectualising, for which you have time and again demonstrated a
strong propensity, i will decline addressing any further correspondence that is not directly about how to achieve an actual freedom for yourself (or that is directly about your concerns about what stands in your way) and recommend that you wait to write about what an actual freedom is or isn't when you are writing from the marvellous experience itself rather than a grandiose vision of it (so that what you write is sensible rather than speculative). here are the criteria:

you have become actually free ('you' have gone entirely into the oblivion of the actual world).
you experience no affect at all (and so experience no malice or sorrow, or their antidotal pacifiers, love or compassion, or affective felicity).
you experience no feeling of 'i' at all, and thus experience apperceptively (and so experience the infinity and eternity and perpetuity of the universe directly).

as experiencing apperceptively is what reveals the stillness i keep talking about (which is clearly currently going over 'your' head), then accomplishing the above as recommended ought to resolve many of your questions and concerns.

whether you choose to do this or continue to fritter away your valuable time posting inane and unrelated comments on message boards is, of course, entirely up to you.

tarin

Fine to be welcome to you and here (yet?),

You are "tergiversating" (is this the correct english word to avoiding the subjetc?).
AF is probably a randomic neurobiological mutation happened inside Richard and another fellow´s head/brain (see UG and Ms. Roberts).
You and company seems to be emulating that guys with a new (but borrowed) lingo from AF website.
But no problem: AF since 2010 started to be a "consciousness mutation" instead.
In this aspect/viewpoint regard conscience transformation and forsake that old self and its emotional stuff and cultural input/investiment, I´m also a Actually Free man too
Go ahead Tarin, but try not to transform HAIETMOBA in "How Am I Extracting That Money of Being an Actual free claimant?".
Only a suggestion, even cash on the barrel being much important to people comfort in this actual world economic system.
Always sincere but never so serious,

Luciano