Notes taken by Daniel Ingram while Hanging Out with Trent and Tarin near Dallas, Texas over Thanksgiving 2010, which are Daniel’s interpretations, summaries and notes about what they said and not necessarily what they actually said or meant, though they did help with a small bit of editing and approved these notes. They are only somewhat in some sort of order.

Regarding emotions: just feel them, don’t go for volume, don’t express them, don’t push them away, don’t repress them, just go for investigation and resonance and tell yourself the story behind them and find something plausible to you about why they arise and tell it and follow along, as the content itself isn't significant as long as you sincerely wish to resolve the stress the story refers to.

As everything is now, worry makes no sense as there is only now, and desire makes no sense as it is only now.

Be intimate with emotions and naive. Be willing to be wrong, as there is no reason to feel ashamed or foolish, and feel slightly excited at the prospect of being able to be foolish.

PCE: useful for getting an outside perspective on an issue you are investigating. Do dialectical inquiry in the PCE and see how there is no recoil, and because of this you can think about whatever issue clearly without emotional compounding. Thus, you can arrive at the answer, as you have no fear, and so can see what you were afraid of and were blocking out.

Practicing for AF is seeing causes and conditions.

Experience perceptual clarity in any form. This doesn’t necessarily mean detailed, minimalist or intense, but just means clear. Remember this at the PCE level when possible.

What you are ultimately going for is not the PCE: that is like concentration, where as investigation is insight and is part of what may be necessary for attaining AF.

Figure out your social identity if it is still intact, and this involves feelings. After that, figure out basic drives and instinctual passions: they are aggression and fear, desire and nurture: see AF website for definitions: they help. Then just be here now and let it happen and accept being here, by then it will make more sense, and you will be able to apply a more direct approach.

Regarding the question of whether one should tune into peace and sensuousness vs. investigating feeling itself: it is best to not know what to do and just immerse yourself in the moment and realize that it is not possible to make a bad choice between the two and you may change that choice at any moment, as there is no you making a choice anyway.

You can’t really know what is best to do: this is part of naivete.

Part of naivete is not trying to solve the problem, as you don’t address the situation as if it is a problem that needs to be solved, and if you make it a diagnostic session you are playing a game and it is good to realize that and stop playing it when that is appropriate.

Falling silent is the stillness, which Tarin later explained as meaning: when you are not feeling stirred in your heart and soul, then that is when you can begin experiencing stillness. When there is clarity and transparency through your being, then you can begin to experience the stillness, and falling silent is the cessation of the feeling-stirring, as in the commotion stops.

Learn to aim towards the PCE with all of one’s affective energy, which is to say with all of the affective energy one is, and realize that some part of oneself is trapped off from the PCE which is why the PCE breaks down and so one needs to have liberation for all parts of oneself, meaning all parts being into the PCE, realizing that one won’t attain AF until all parts of oneself are into the PCE.

Don’t go too fast, and instead just go at a lively pace but not so fast that you miss the delicateness of the experiences, as that would be a way to objectify or dissociate from them.

It is helpful to go into your stuff to the degree that you are not avoiding it, and beyond that it is ‘by ear” and there is no necessity either way.

When asked about distractions/movies/books, etc. Tarin said, “The energy it must be done with, either while distracting yourself or monking-out, must be engaged and enjoyable and refreshing, and that could be either solitude and silence or stimulating things, and it is good to have those in combination.”

Tarin said: knowing that chasing your own tail is not helpful is only good as a support to being the stillness and being “the break”, a term I personally still find somewhat mysterious but assume that practice will help clarify.

Tarin advised taking out the business and need to do stuff when possible: try not catching up with friends, not catching up on the DhO, and try going for walks with my wife, lay on the porch, not know what to do with your day, pet the cats, and settle down and these will be rich fulfilling days, and even if that is uneasy and uncomfortable as it is not what I am used to, it will be good. This was obviously personally-directed advice but may contain more broadly applicable aspects.

Take that lay on the couch feeling with you when doing other things.

Fulfillment is relaxing into the break and deepening in that.

Startle response is normal, but affect then arises dependent on being scared of the startle response.

It is nice to enjoy what one is doing.

Have confidence in the universe, and not in the whims and whimsies of petulant, fickle human beings.

Talking from where feeling are makes people feel more relaxed.

Fear and paranoia are just imagination: bizarre, random and nonsensical.

Fear or "someone else’s" fear is only ever a demonstration of one’s own.

Relationships happen when one splits into two parts, so whatever you have a feeling about is something you have a relationship with, you must exist in relationship to it to have feeling about it.

When wondering about whether there are contradictions or questions that can be answered by asking, more interesting to inhabit the not knowing itself.

You don’t actually have an agenda for what happens, as you don’t know what you are looking for, so whatever happens, that is not the problem, and if you look at things to give you a clue, that can help, but don’t look at things with expectations for what they should do, as you don’t know.

You need to follow where the desire and fear go, to find the end of their iteration, their “sink”. That said, desire and fear don’t go anywhere: they are just here now.

When in the PCE: the compulsion to stay in it is the thing that is pulling you out, so the fear and the desire are basically the same thing.

Find Tarin’s diagrams and memorize them: essential point: enjoy this moment, find perfection here and now, if not, realize that nothing you think is better than that is worth it and find a way back to enjoying now and then have that be forever.
http://i43.tinypic.com/34owzld.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/6fpmoo.jpg

Trent’s advice: use the PCE as a golden pass to see things you can’t ordinarily see clearly, so sometimes it is better to investigate it rather than dwelling in it so as to get insight into those things you can’t easily gain insight into in normal attention mode and take that knowledge back with you.

Regarding issues: the fastest and most direct way is to sincerely say to yourself, “I am truly done with that and need not look at it again,” but for those things that insist you look at them again, meaning that this approach doesn’t work, they must be investigated and seen clearly enough to be able to do that.

Concentration is holding the vine or undergrowth in the forest still so that insight can cut that vine, and so one proceeds in the jungle this way, realizing that the nature of the Self is to create more and more stuff to get emotional about, constantly growing new vines and things to tangle you up, such that all available energy and attention must go towards this, as otherwise they will just grow up over you, and doing this well enough results in being free from all that. You need not find every dormant issue, just enough of them now to be free now. You just need sufficient clarity and energy to make the flip.

If you can’t find words to tag to your feelings: just make a story up: make it convincingly enough to believe it and the feeling adapts to the story, or you will then see how to adopt the story to the feeling, and thus, being of one mind again, you can find your way back to being happy, and people do this all the time in their daily life and it works. People reverse engineer what actually happen to fit their current emotions all the time, and while they are fundamentally besotted with delusion, you can do this and use it as a conscious strategy to realize that you can’t take stories seriously anymore, as because this works, then you can take your stories less seriously, because at a basic level they are all there just to try to do this and all delusional.

Assume that your emotions are going to do all sorts of irrational things and don’t feel ashamed of that, or, if you do, just notice that the shame itself is irrational, as feeling irrational things is what the feeling of being does.

The body image-feeling is shimmery and fluxing when not in a PCE, particularly when eyes closed, but the fact that this is different from the PCE image-feeling of the body which is much more stable and clean and clear is not a problem, as this is just an association, so don’t make a problem out of that.

Daniel,

Regarding the flowchart 6fpmoo. The question "is xyz worth missing out on enjoying this moment?" makes perfect sense to the conscious mind. But emotions (feeling bad) comes from the subconscious mind, which doesn't respond to logical rational thought. Anyone with a phobia knows full well how silly and counterproductive their reaction is, and yet knowing this at a conscious level doesn't help them. CBT people use almost an identical approach with the question: "is this useful?". It's obvious that it's not useful, and yet the critical message doesn't reach the deeper levels of the psyche where it can take effect. Wouldn't it be wiser to devise some sort of strategy to counter 'feeling bad' that uses symbolism, sound/rhythm, imagery, behaviour or feelings?

The answer to the question "are you feeling bad?... why?" is always to do with desire ("I can't/won't get what I want"). If you "drill down" through the thwarted desire, the core belief at play is always to do with lack of self-worth ie. "I'm not good enough". This is best treated by behaving as if the core belief isn't true. I'd suggest that anyone having difficulty with applying AF try this approach. It works.


CCC

Hi,

As Daniel is likely not to respond due to his busy schedule, I will do so in his stead.



The conscious mind has only forgotten the triggers for the body's affective feelings; there is not an opaque mind behind the scenes. One only needs speak with oneself honestly about the feelings to uncover their origin. Thence the conscious mind can apply its rational thought to the origin, and with requisite sincerity, eliminate it utterly.



If it doesn't help at the conscious level, it's because something else is missing from the method, such as one's ability to investigate one's self honestly or intelligently, one's ability to be sincere, etc. Also, sometimes extreme aversions (e.g. phobias) are supported by a multitude of other beliefs which likely must first be eliminated prior to eliminating the root itself.



Dependent upon the situation, there are many reasons why the critical message won't have the intended effect, some of which I mentioned above. In these cases, the issue is ignorance, on the behalf of both the patient and the diagnostician.

Let's say the issue "deep in the psyche" lies behind a door, and "is this useful" is a key. One can put the key into the door and turn the handle all one wants, but if the door is internally dead-bolted due to a lack of the things I mentioned above (honesty, sincerity, among others), the door isn't going to open.



Personally, I would rather examine the door, the lock if apparent, the handle, and all things surrounding it so as to get an idea of who/what is behind. If something seems to be missing, I can ask the dweller pointed questions about what the situation is like on the other side. Then, while clearly understanding cause and effect, I know what needs to be done inside so that the dweller understands that it is okay to retract the dead-bolts. From there, I can then help the person indoors understand how to retract them safely, and in a manner that which teaches them the way to do it alone next time. Then, and only then, will the key ("is this useful") slide elegantly into the lock (though the key may no longer be necessary at all). The fresh air on the other side is ambrosial, to say the least.

Further, I think that it would be wiser to understand one's self fully through to dissolution before attempting to help another in that endeavor, even for one single issue. The blind cannot well lead the blind through the treacherous terrain of the psyche regardless of how many strategies are conceived; neither have a clear idea of the path to the cessation of that stress (and if either did, the issue would quickly cease being an issue).



Perhaps that is the case (for some), but practically speaking, desire is not always the apparent visage of it's intent. Further-- and to provide an example of that in action-- one can also say the same about fear, as they are two sides of the same coin.



Perhaps that is the case (for some), but practically speaking, this is only one possible manifestation (among many), and it really doesn't matter how it manifests. The only purpose for digging into an issue in this way (with resolution as the aim) is to convince one's self that it is okay to apply sincerity ("it really is okay to let go now"). So it doesn't really matter what is found in investigation, so long as it provides enough context for the inquirer to let go of the attachment (the specific reason doesn't really matter either, as long as it matters to 'me' at that moment).



No, this (the identification / ignorance which is the cause for suffering) is best treated (eliminated) by sincerely understanding that it doesn't matter if the core belief is true or false while also understanding that it is causing one to suffer.

If one were to behave as if the core belief isn't true, then it is likely that a new iteration of suffering will begin; one simply chases one's tail clock-wise, rather than counter-clock-wise.



And I suggest that anyone having difficulty with applying the AF method try posting on this very forum instead, stating the situation as they see it, so that their difficulties can be resolved.

If this post appears to you as any indication that you are having difficulty with applying AF methods, I suggest doing the same, even if you have found a method which seems to be working. At worst, you will have confirmation that you are on the right track; those that end their suffering do this shamelessly whenever appropriate and possible.

Trent

Thank you Daniel, and Tarin and Trent.

Same from me!

and, personally, adding Stefanie KD,Steph S,Jason L,John M, Martin m, Jeff G,Tommy M,Beo,Elin,Daniel J,Bruno, Zhi L,Florian,ManZA,Paul,Craig N, David N, DhO community. Practical, plain stuff.

i have split off the discussion between tommy m and ccc (along with beoman's responses) to another thread, pursuant to tommy's stated wish that their correspondence not distract from the focus of this thread.

The goal, at first, is to be happy right now, right? But more than just that. One must be happy right now for the right reasons. Because all the sensations of life as they are happening right now are fantastically interesting (and the point of view that one had before, which was taking away from appreciation of life's sensations, are not nearly as interesting.) Is that right? And the idea is that one will sooner or later shift away from point of view and shift towards sensate phenomena. Is that right?

Notes taken by Daniel Ingram while Hanging Out with Trent and Tarin near Dallas, Texas

pulling a few notes from the up-post to re-orient. Thanks all.