Beoman Beo Beoman:
Nikolai H.:
So, Tarin, in my experience, I see nothing more than 5 aggregates in any experience. I see no self in them. What am I missing? What was the Buddha missing? Is there a self than exists beyond the 5 aggregates in the AF view?
Hehe I don't think the Buddha stopped at MCTB 4th Path.
Of course he didn't. Traditional Buddhism (Theravada Buddhism etc.) asserts that an Arahat eliminated all anger, emotions, ability to enjoy sensual pleasures, greed, pride or the ability to feel conceit whatsoever, any type of desire, the ability to have wrong views etc.
When I got into Buddhism originally from a book on Vipassana Meditation and subsequently began researching the internet and reading sites like palikanon, stuff on the abhidhamma and accesstoinsight this was the impression I got.
I fail to see how anyone could possibly come under the wrong impression that they are enlightened according to the Buddhist definition and still have emotions or whatever. It is obviously not the same thing. This site and a variety of other ones are built on a lot of assumptions.
For ex: Kenneth Folk once says something like: "I wouldn't say we are definitely not Pali Canon arahats". If you feel anger, take any other path other than Buddhism, believe there is no life after death and then you are definitely not a Pali Canon arahat. It is explicitly stated that an arahat has eliminated all emotions whatsoever, to claim or deny this is just wrong, and very annoying.
Even Richard gets it wrong: He claims that Enlightened Beings are suffused with compassion (they experience no such emotions, remember that even Arahats do not feel compassion or any other "karma generating" emotions, or any desire whatsoever), that they realise the nondual or whatever.
Nah. The enlightenment of Theravada Buddhism I remember thinking of as something more of a superhuman feat. It's not like a nondual realization or anything like that, I remember thinking of it as extraordinary because it was more described as the total annihlation of emotions etc. Plus there was some realization about there being no self.
Anyways I'm not sure how actualism fits into this, first of all to claim that it is a continuation of Budhdism or is beyond it, I don't know. Since Aryans reputedly cannot have wrong views then it is impossible for them to be in Annihlationism Extreme, or whatever or believe that there is no life after death, or that the universe is infinite and eternal as per the 14 unanswerable questions or whatever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_unanswerable_questions
Sassata-Ditthi
Uccedha-Ditthi
You might try learning Pali and try translating suttas from Vridhamma or use the Pali Text Society's Dictionary, or whatever. Plus Commentaries and a bunch of other things (Abhidhamma) may be unreliable, but whatever.
Sorry if I was insulting.
Peace.
Edit: Oh and there are other things like Arahats being incapable of certain actions in the Vinaya and what not. So yeah, I mean if you want to claim Enlightenment then whatever. But you might as well call it something else, however part of Buddhism is realizing that there is no other Genuine Path other than the Buddha Dhamma. So I can't really fathom what other Genuine, Permanent, Sustained attainment there can be other than that.
Second Edit:
In fact, here's a reference.
Suffering's Origin (Dukkha Samudaya):
"This is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there, that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination."[3][4]
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths
Of course since the logic of Buddhism is that the Cause of Suffering is Desire, then the end of Suffering (enlightenment) must be the eradication of desire. There is Kama-Tanha (they call it craving, but maybe more like desire), Bhava-Tanha, Vibhava-Tanha.
Since an arahat has reached the end of suffering and has eliminated all these which are Desire for Senses, or at least any pleasure via the Senses, Desire for Becoming, Desire for Non Existence, then if you have any of these you cannot be an arahat.
Another Edit:
Arahatship is defined as the end of suffering. If you're suffering you're not an arahat, it is that simple, in actuality.
So the sort of rationalizations like: Oh well, I'm still suffering, but I don't identify with it, or it's all lubricated, or there is no tension or stagnation or whatever. They do not count. It is defined as the end of all suffering, depression etc.
So if you suffer, you cannot be an arhat.