I think this is important...



i think i've gotten better at attentiveness lately, but even with 'automatic' (i.e. it's an automatic process whenever i remember to do it, until i get distracted again) attentiveness, it's still easy to go off into some unhappy states.. and hard to get back from them

i think attentiveness provides a good platform to do whatever you want, though, as whatever you do you can only do it moment to moment, and attentiveness is being aware of what one is doing moment to moment.. so any instruction that one can mix into attentiveness will happen as automatically as attentiveness does

so i tried providing a non-verbal instruction to myself such that whenever im attentive i also gravitate towards being happy and harmless. and it seems to work well! it has a particular quality to it - a light warmth in my upper chest and head (i wonder if it's actually endorphins being released as if i force a smile that same region lights up in a similar way). and it's kind of like auto-piloting towards happiness and harmlessness. at least my mood has visibly brightened the past hour and i touched upon a few moments that have been as maximally clean+clear as i've gotten.

it also seems to make dealing with feelings and beliefs easier. before it's like 'ah darn this feeling keeps coming up.. well why's it there? have to figure it out so that it stops bothering me'. with this new approach it's more like 'ah look! my lovely brain is constantly providing possible reasons - entry points into the investigation process - as to what's preventing me from being even more happy+harmless than i'm being right now.' the feelings and 'annoyances' are more like wonderful opportunities to uncover another corner of the human (i.e. 'my') psyche.

it's still easy to not do it, e.g. to get distracted and then forget for a bit, but that can change. although, knowing me i'll forget this for another two weeks then i'll re-read this and be like 'oh this is what i should have been doing the past two weeks eh?'

cool. This is a good way to look at it. Autopilot, except one slowly picks up speed (incrementally happier and more harmless).

I've noticed a correlation between attentiveness and sensuousness, where the more attentive one is, the more sensuousness one can harness leading to greater control, more fun in the actual world, and easier peak experiences but you definitely gotta focus on both at the same time not just one.

I have had over two hundred "ah this is what will work" moments over the years. I still have the notes for each of them. Each one comes with a different quote from the AF site that is the "crucial part I've been ignoring". So that works for a day or two. But then it just stops working, or more likely, the realisation was not the solution after all.

That's why, the last time, I decided to wait for a whole week of consistent results before noting down my new understanding... and it still turned out to be temporary. It's not forgetting what to do, it's a case of it not working anymore. I'll be waiting for at least a month or two of consistent results before I think I've found any way that the method is working for me.

whatever method works eventually, it will have to be applied moment-to-moment until AF. i can't sincerely say i've been doing that non-stop with anything i've tried. what sometimes happens is: initial period of success, with lapses of a few seconds here and there, but quick getting back to it. then i get distracted for a bit longer, then i remember the method. but then there's a nagging "gah this isn't working" that arises. that nagging causes me to not pursue the method as assiduously as before, i get distracted within a few seconds.. i keep coming back to it but each time i come back to it there's the nagging, and soon enough im in a pretty bad mood and 'gah that didnt work either'. and i really dont feel like applying it out of the rut..

and there's definitely a flavor to the nagging like 'oh i dont want to try this again. it'll just get my hopes up and then it won't work and ill feel even worse'. that feeling of dashed hope really sucks

yet when i later find myself in a good mood and remember the method its like "oh yeah i really should just be doing this..."

all those feelings are just more things to investigate.. i don't think the nagging and stuff is the method failing (the method is simple.. just be attentive), it's failing to apply the method (to apply it equally to negative nagging feelings, especially regarding the application of the method itself (those are easy to overlook), as well as neutral and positive feelings unrelated to the method)

speaking for myself only here

How about having the pure intent to find the very physical trigger/condition for any specific feeling that is arising and break up the glomming that is going on. The mental reaction will usually subside and you are left with the flow of sensations that was giving the feeling it's vibe. Get real good at finding the physical trigger whenever possible, and you can break up any feeling at anytime into it's parts. Feelings seem to lose their inertia when you do that. They break up and you are left with sensuousness without the mind bending all over the sensations to create a feeling "me".

Generate some equanimity towards the sensations. I sometimes, when overwhelmed by a negative feeling, ask myself either HAIETMOBA or Where's the trigger? and stare the hell out of it. Meaning I'll just use it as a kasina of sorts. Then watch and learn as the mind tries to bend around, identify, and create a feeling out of the sensations. If you are on top of the sensations, I reckon you are on top of the whole feeling itself. You cease the glomming. From there, you can try generating wonder for the sensations. Include them in all that momentary sensuousness. From there, they usually "lose" their unpleasantness for me, and eventually bubble, spit and then dissipate and I'm left with a more uplifting felicitious feeling. From there, it's just a matter of time till PCE mode is triggered.

I recently read this sutta by the Buddha and it struck me that it is very similar if not the same practice I am doing to get into PCE mode.



Being attentive involves having some concentration skills. Uplifting energy sounds awfully close to felicitous feelings. And equanimity of the Goenka kind is definitely being cultivated as the physical triggers of feelings are observed without the mind reacting to them with aversion, craving or ignorance. Stopping the fermentations sounds like what one does via PCEs to get actually free.

My current 2 cents

Edited for crappy grammar.

do you mean what did i literally see/feel on my skin/smell that triggered the feeling? that's interesting.. usually i just think my mind wanders into it (so the trigger is a previous thought), at least when 'meditating' (i.e. walking around/sitting and being attentive/sensuous), but i'll keep an eye out.

i do find i can keep a lid on my thoughts if i incline my mind that way. kind of like how they have sometimes noticeably stopped dead when getting into the (2nd?) jhana. and it is definitely harder to create a story without the thoughts coming in and stitching it together.

i'll try breaking it up into its parts, too. what is the annoyance, exactly? it has physical components (where are they located? what are they like?), mental ones (what are the thoughts like?), etc..

I usually experience all feelings as having a physical trigger at the hara, solar plexus, heart or throat areas. Subtle flows of vibrations. Mostly the heart and throat. Every feeling seems to be accompanied by a sensation of some kind which colours and conditions it. That sensation or flow of sensations/vibrations can be observed and the mental reaction (the glomming/compounding process) can be stopped, in my experience. I think a feeling can arise due to the mind reacting to a sensation, or viceversa. A thought could trigger a sensation to arise.

Try seeing if there is any activity in those chakra spots at any given time a feeling has arisen. Then take the physical component as the main object. Apply attentiveness to it and let the mental reactions be there till they dissipate by themselves. Without ignorance of what is going on, you cut the chain of blind reaction and get back to sensuousness rather than float about in mental clouds. You also develop and cultivate an equanimity that is useful to stop any future glomming and get back to apperception (which i would call the ultimate type of equanimity)





Yeh, take it apart. Show this mind/body organism that what it is doing is madness. Break it down and you are then able to be with sensuousness, even when the feeling that had arisen was of an unpleasant nature. It helps with pure intent too!

ah i see what you mean. i have definitely noticed the corresponding physical components in those areas, though i haven't always looked out for it - i will do so.

i don't think those physical sensations are triggers for a feeling, though - i think they are the feeling. so i would not call it a physical trigger, but the physical component of the feeling. like you said, staying on top of those sensations is staying on top of the feeling because they're one and the same.

'you' think 'you' can control this process by controlling attentiveness to physical sensations. but 'you' don't have control in that process - 'you' don't even exist in that capacity, in actuality.

the actual world is not 'i'. the actual will is not 'i'. intelligence is not 'i'. consciousness is not 'i'. memory is not 'i'. discernment is not 'i'. intention is not 'i'. motor function is not 'i'. controlling is not 'i'. attentiveness is not 'i'. physical sensations are not 'i'. this process is not 'i'.

further, 'the actual world is not 'mine.' the actual will is not 'mine'. intelligence is not 'mine'. consciousness is not 'mine'. memory is not 'mine'. discernment is not 'mine'. intention is not 'mine'. motor function is not 'mine'. controlling is not 'mine'. attentiveness is not 'mine'. physical sensations are not 'mine'. this process is not 'mine'.

one who realises that none of these things are 'i', or 'mine', realises 'my' time is up.

tarin

then why does it seem like doing certain things vs. other is more productive with regards to becoming actually free?

my answer after asking myself that: doing the things that work is effectively 'me' getting out of the way to let the process unfold. giving up control (since it's not mine to begin with). the last step is called an out-from-control virtual freedom no?

maybe that explains the spurting nature of the beginning of the path to an actual freedom (me defining 'the beginning' as whatever is necessary to lead up to the point where from then on it happens by itself). one does A, and it doesn't work. one does B and - hey it seems to work! one keeps doing B and it no longer seems to work. but that's cause B was stepping out of the way, and once it was seen to work 'i' stepped in to keep doing it, at which point it ceases to work (since it is no longer B ).

is 'i' 'i'? is 'i' 'mine'? 'i' also seems like a process happening of its own accord...

Thanks for the pointer, Tarin!

I understand what you're talking about, I've also went through the same thing. There were several methods that I came up with that seemed to work for a few days, but just stopped after that. I've found that, it was just "me" trying to get a handle around the process. But "I" do not and cannot control the process. No method that "I" apply will work because attentiveness is not something that "I" control. I think that attentiveness is something that is always happening, but "I" split that perception up into two portions. I've personally had (and still have some) difficulty applying this because I just didn't know what attentiveness was. I kept trying to feel out the moment or be present (unknowingly) and mistook it for attentiveness. But I was also simultaneously applying attentiveness to "me" (unknowingly) and this habit has stuck. But due to this habit of doing both there's a lot of physical discomfort (a product of the fear of extinction) as "I" try to grab onto all "I" can so that "I" can avoid extinction. This may be where pure intent and naivete are very important as there's a tendency to dissociate and grab onto something else so that "I" may try to watch or savor oblivion (not possible). With 100% pure intent one can agree to one's extinction with all of one's "being". So let's see where this goes from here.

Anyways, I don't know if I can explain better than Richard does in his article "Attentiveness and Sensuousness and Apperceptiveness" as to what attentiveness is. Attentiveness is a sensuous attention. Attentiveness is a fascination attention. Attentiveness is a reflective attention.

This quote struck and helped me the most.



Or perhaps if you are having trouble getting back to "feeling good", you're not being sincere with yourself. I've found this to be the case in my experience many times. Maybe it's a set of cynical views or beliefs that need investigating.

What's the difference between:
discernment and intelligence
discernment and attentiveness
discernment and consciousness
intention and actual will
?