I think the discussion level on this forum is simply pathetic, taking into consideration this thread general characteristics as the average. I shouldn't be surprised though for the pursuit of actual freedom is basically a franchise type of endeavour, not leaving much room for individual creativity or originality, the work of art of an 110 IQ repetitive individual. What boils down to in the end is a do it yourself self-help thing that achieves 'success' by undoing the self. And 'success' means becoming an obsessive compulsive freak fixated on undoing the social conditioning to the cent and, for the hardcore participants, the instinctual one. It's a circular process, you cannot escape the snake biting its tail analogy. You people here have shifted focus from pursuing the Bomb, aka Enlightenment, to chasing the void, longing to become nothingness, non-entities, with a brainwashed brain in control and a libido-free sex life, orgiastic fantasies not included in the deal. I have serious reservations that Richard has successfully undone all his instinctual conditioning. Two things spring to mind: power and sex. He is not free from the instinctual root of power as he practically demonstrated at the MSV Actualis Captain elections. Instead of going for a democratic vote, with multiple individual choices, the initiates propped him up as the ship's Captain, probably with backing from the ship's financing team, Tom and Pamela. Real world at its best. I feel sorry for Vineeto as she had to forgo her intially correct common sense/integrity appraisal of the situation because she would have been implicitly ostracized from the only social circle she enjoyed and the lifeboat lifestyle it promised. That communal living thing, with non-nuclear couples living together in sweet harmony, sexually liberated probably (the author doesn't make that very clear as it is the inner circle he's talking about), naked as in with nothing to hide, seems to me grotesque. Is anyone's business if I want to keep some things private or prefer a nuclear type sexual relationship? Out from control indeed. That guy simply committed suicide, killed the male-identity based Self. That avenue is closed. PERIOD. No other male identity on this Terra Cognita will be able to get enlightened in aeons, ever. He is a murderer for he killed and buried Love. The only avenue still open for enlightenment is via a female identity. He simply could have exited the enlightened state if he didn't find it satisfactory. He was under no duress to remain in that exalted state of being, yet because of what he did, we, as a species, are poorer. The earnest moderator on this forum had no other choice but to pursue actual freedom as the enlightened avenue was blocked, done, finished. I am not discussing the PCE attributes, it is a wonderful experience. I'm simply denying the actualist claim as being the best. It is simply the experience of the 5th dimension, Eternity. You have to become a zero to experience that, sort of a dead man, psychologically speaking of course. That fool though that the PCE is higher in its inner essence/characteristics than the direct experience of the 6th dimension, the Nous. Enlightenment is simply one's human id (the informational essence of what one is) experiencing without any blockages or intermediaries the 6th dimension. I had to get through the wall in order to correct what that fool did. I first got enlightened via a female id and then I reestablished contact with the 6th by going into the 7th dimension with my male id. The problem was that Satan was the master of the 7th dimension, I will not delve into what happened there. I entered back into the 6th via the motor function and reconnected it to the 5th, Eternity. I couldn't do it all on affect so I had to partially do it on the motor function. The question I want you to ask yourselves is: where can suicide, no matter the type, can lead to? I answered this question to myself and my answer is simply that one kills his own id, the only structure that withstands death and thus can be informationally developed over multiple lifetimes. It is not (only) the instinctual passions that Richard eliminated, and that is debatable, he simply killed his own id and became a zero. Development is no longer possible for him, it might be the reason why he thinks he reached the zenith of human achievement, no human, not even in a million years, can surpass his permanent condition... that's the rationale behind his claims. I wrote this long post not in order to endorse enlightenment, which I view it as but a state/condition part of a large repertoire of possible states achievable by a human, but to make it a viable option. I personally experienced it, I liked it, yet I've chosen to pursue other development avenues, sort of an humming bird approach. It's not a question whether enlightenment is flawed or not, or our normal waking state sucks or not, these are simply states that can add or subtract to the general quality of experience, cognitive, emotional, motor, instinctual. It is the developmental needs of the id, which is not the psychological or instinctual entity known as the self, that requires constant sustenance in order to develop its informational and experiential capacity, sort of itsdaily bread.

you might want to break up the wall of text a bit into paragraphs.. hard to read as it is

Marius,

Edited: Claudiu beat me to it, but I second what he said. Please fix the wall of words so we can read your interesting opinion with ease. Thanks mate!


Nick

P.S. The master of the 7th dimension is Satan? Who'd have thought?

I was going to request he stop using punctuation, it just seemed to break up the flow, but never mind.

Hi Marius,
Or should I say Catalin? No one else I know of talks about Satan and other dimensions quite like you.
I enjoyed your post, and have no problem with the "wall of words". But I'll break down this wall here, for comments and questions to (hopefully) clarify some things.

Marius says-
I think the discussion level on this forum is simply pathetic, taking into consideration this thread general characteristics as the average. I shouldn't be surprised though for the pursuit of actual freedom is basically a franchise type of endeavour, not leaving much room for individual creativity or originality, the work of art of an 110 IQ repetitive individual.

Gardol says-
An intellectual plodder. I don't remember if Ricky admitted to that number, but if he only has only 110 IQ, that explains a lot. And I don't think he uses all of it.
Your franchise description aligns with my own description of it as a multi-level marketing enterprise in consciousness. Good for people who get on board the boat in time, the rest get stuck with books, DVD's, and feelings of envy.

Marius-
What boils down to in the end is a do it yourself self-help thing that achieves 'success' by undoing the self. And 'success' means becoming an obsessive compulsive freak fixated on undoing the social conditioning to the cent and, for the hardcore participants, the instinctual one. It's a circular process, you cannot escape the snake biting its tail analogy.

Gardol-
I think I get you, but for clarification, please identify what you mean by the snake head, and snake tail, in your analogy.
But yeah, it consumes itself, I made the same point in a different way at over at Yahoo's AF forum.
We will not get to "world peace" in this way. Please allow me to at least burst that bubble with the pin prick of rationality.

Marius-
You people here have shifted focus from pursuing the Bomb, aka Enlightenment, to chasing the void, longing to become nothingness, non-entities, with a brainwashed brain in control and a libido-free sex life, orgiastic fantasies not included in the deal.

Gardol-
For someone who once strongly advocated Actual Freedom, you seem much less impressed now. Did your experience with Ricky and crew change your mind? If not, then what did change your mind?
And by the way "orgiastic fantasies not included"? They were implied though, right? unless I projected that...

Marius-
I have serious reservations that Richard has successfully undone all his instinctual conditioning. Two things spring to mind: power and sex. He is not free from the instinctual root of power as he practically demonstrated at the MSV Actualis Captain elections. Instead of going for a democratic vote, with multiple individual choices, the initiates propped him up as the ship's Captain, probably with backing from the ship's financing team, Tom and Pamela. Real world at its best.

Gardol-
It's Foucault's fault: "The strategic adversary is fascism... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us."
Richard loves his power, as he amply demonstrates in his writing, and as I presume you saw in person.

And by the way, I would not expect any different result from a democratic vote...
"How many yes-men and yes-women here vote yes to make Richard the Captain?" yes yes yes yes yes


Marius-
I feel sorry for Vineeto as she had to forgo her intially correct common sense/integrity appraisal of the situation because she would have been implicitly ostracized from the only social circle she enjoyed and the lifeboat lifestyle it promised.

Gardol-
Wait a minute! How can you feel sorry for someone who, by definition of AF, remains happy in every moment? Vineeto can't FEEL BAD about that, or DISAPPOINTED, in ANY way, can she?
Please, tell me more.

Marius-
That communal living thing, with non-nuclear couples living together in sweet harmony, sexually liberated probably (the author doesn't make that very clear as it is the inner circle he's talking about), naked as in with nothing to hide, seems to me grotesque. Is anyone's business if I want to keep some things private or prefer a nuclear type sexual relationship?

Gardol-
Of all the sex I have had, I definitely prefer NUCLEAR sex.

Marius-
Out from control indeed. That guy simply committed suicide, killed the male-identity based Self. That avenue is closed. PERIOD. No other male identity on this Terra Cognita will be able to get enlightened in aeons, ever. He is a murderer for he killed and buried Love. The only avenue still open for enlightenment is via a female identity. He simply could have exited the enlightened state if he didn't find it satisfactory. He was under no duress to remain in that exalted state of being, yet because of what he did, we, as a species, are poorer. The earnest moderator on this forum had no other choice but to pursue actual freedom as the enlightened avenue was blocked, done, finished.

Gardol-
I think I keep hitting the same dead-end in my own practice.
The way I break down the separate components of the "self" comes from my teacher. I will list the 4 components below.
1) Attatchment to mental images.
2) Attachment to internal talk.
3) Attachment to emotional feelings
4) Attachment to self sense

Of these four, the last one seems like the most primal and persistent. I have these feelings making up a somatic sense of self inhabiting my body. I talked to my teacher about this sense of self, and I described it as a kind of fog of feeling that went from my head, through my neck and throat, into my chest. That sense of self used to locate only in my head, but through various awakenings I've had, my sense of self inhabits more of my body, sometimes expanding to my whole body and surrounding space. It still usually feels more concentrated in my head, but it has a diaphanous quality. My teacher said if I focused on the sense of self in my mindfulness meditation, then eventually that somatic sense of self would disappear.

This counts as the third time I have spent meditation time focused on the somatic sense of self. Each time I seem to hit a dead end with this practice. I know Kenneth Folk highly recommends this practice as the 2nd Gear of his "three speed transmission". It seems the same as Ramana Maharshi's method advocated in his little book, I can't get to my copy right now to reference it. But I find the practice of observing this sense of self just keeps the sense of self vibrating. Attention does not diminish this sense for me. It seems to just get stronger, and I feel it as an occlusion to perception. I used to groove on it, now it bothers me.

I have not found anyone else, or any group that talks about this stuff. I have noticed that it helps me to focus on the external world. surface of my skin, sights sounds etc. Same as Daniel and Tarin recommend in their talk at Hurricane Ranch. Then I recently entered a state wherein I felt no location of self in my body or in space. It does not match PCE description exactly, but some kind of no-self experience. Can't produce it at will, yet.
I liked it very much, but it took a lot of attention/energy to build up momentum enough to get a lock on it, then I checked in several times- no self sense, no self sense, no self sense. It felt like a reversal of polarity, attention out instead of in, all out, you know, 180 degrees? Oh, no, not 180 degrees again!
Attention! a tension....

Marius-
I am not discussing the PCE attributes, it is a wonderful experience. I'm simply denying the actualist claim as being the best. It is simply the experience of the 5th dimension, Eternity. You have to become a zero to experience that, sort of a dead man, psychologically speaking of course. That fool though that the PCE is higher in its inner essence/characteristics than the direct experience of the 6th dimension, the Nous.

Gardol-
That sounds more like what I experienced, the Nous. That dimension includes Eternity, doesn't it? As each dimension includes the ones before it.


Marius-
Enlightenment is simply one's human id (the informational essence of what one is) experiencing without any blockages or intermediaries the 6th dimension. I had to get through the wall in order to correct what that fool did. I first got enlightened via a female id and then I reestablished contact with the 6th by going into the 7th dimension with my male id. The problem was that Satan was the master of the 7th dimension, I will not delve into what happened there. I entered back into the 6th via the motor function and reconnected it to the 5th, Eternity. I couldn't do it all on affect so I had to partially do it on the motor function.

Gardol-
When you write of enlightenment through the female id, I think of Kenneth Folk's "third gear", of total surrender, or Papaji's advice to "CALL OFF THE SEARCH". Do you mean something else?
Thank you for doing that stealth operation by the way. I can't deal with Satan. I can't even deal with the minor demons because they don't fight fair. If they would fight fair I would kick their asses, but they go for your family instead. Where the Hell is Jesus, anyway? Who else can kick Satan out of the 7th dimension?
I have some property in the 7th dimension, so I would definitely like to live there.
Unfortunately, I think Satan reads all of my posts, so I don't have a lot of leeway for planning in this space.

Marius-
The question I want you to ask yourselves is: where can suicide, no matter the type, can lead to? I answered this question to myself and my answer is simply that one kills his own id, the only structure that withstands death and thus can be informationally developed over multiple lifetimes. It is not (only) the instinctual passions that Richard eliminated, and that is debatable, he simply killed his own id and became a zero.

Gardol-
I don't want to kill my id, I just want to clear out the somatic sense of self (my #4 above) because I think it clogs my guns. It reduces my potential by providing a sticking post for the other three components of self, including the emotional set with fear, anger and sadness as the usual suspects.

Marius-
Development is no longer possible for him, it might be the reason why he thinks he reached the zenith of human achievement, no human, not even in a million years, can surpass his permanent condition... that's the rationale behind his claims.

Gardol-
Thank you. I appreciate that insight from someone who has spent some time with the man. What about his "No psychic vibes in the Actual World" claim? Has he just tuned out?

Marius-
I wrote this long post not in order to endorse enlightenment, which I view it as but a state/condition part of a large repertoire of possible states achievable by a human, but to make it a viable option. I personally experienced it, I liked it, yet I've chosen to pursue other development avenues, sort of an humming bird approach. It's not a question whether enlightenment is flawed or not, or our normal waking state sucks or not, these are simply states that can add or subtract to the general quality of experience, cognitive, emotional, motor, instinctual. It is the developmental needs of the id, which is not the psychological or instinctual entity known as the self, that requires constant sustenance in order to develop its informational and experiential capacity, sort of itsdaily bread.

Gardol-
Have you found anything better than enlightenment? Personally, I think roller-skating beats enlightenment, but I can't roller-skate all the time.
.
Proceed in coolness,

Gardol Yack

P.S. We will probably both get banned from this list as heretics.

as this has nothing to do with AF and jobs, though is potentially interesting, can i request it be split off and moved to the Dharma Battleground?

I'll keep the text as it is. Yes, I posted as Catalin on the AF forum if that is of any relevance. What is important about the 6th dimension, provided one makes contact with one's id, it's the possibility of becoming a Nous programmer. I personally believe that the whole past and present spiritual enterprise is simply misguided, Buddha and all spiritual teachers included. They exclusively focus on the self and the Self, not realizing that they are but psychological extensions/tools of the id. The id's interface to the material world is the self whilst its interface to the Nous is the Self, which is but the same entity although magnified. Richard arrived and derived many correct conclusions, his main failure in my view consisting in his lacking of any direct experience or knowledge of his or others id whilst denying the existence of other dimensions, throwing the baby with the bath water. It is the id that has an open ended developmental horizon and can pass through the shock of death intact, the self is but a program of the 4th dimension whereas the Self/Spirit is a program/interface of the 6th. What goes by the name of soul is the energy imprint of the id in the 5th dimension, Eternity, what he calls the instinctual passions of desire, fear, aggression and nurture. In my opinion, Richard self-Self-soul immolated, implicitly deleting the programs associated with these entities, which are but simple interfaces that one can use in order to create one's reality and develop the avenues most beneficial to the id development needs, sort of a Windows interface that when installed comes by default with some friendly guiding programs, helping one to get started in whatever one wishes to accomplish. I saw both my own id and those of several other individuals, it is one's hardcore. Richard bypassed or probably simply eliminated his own id which I don't regard as a wise thing to do. That is my whole point, everything else that I wrote is designed to provide a context for making it clear. The essential difference between the path I've chosen and what Richard choose boils down to going up when compared to being satisfied with a horizontal destiny/trajectory. He choose to become a zero, it's great for him, it's cool for me. He is blocked in regards to any future development as his id probably switched off. I am open ended.

why not? he and others who have followed in his steps seem quite satisfied.

what future developments do you want that the AF state precludes?

it sounds like you have to go through a lot of work to feed this id. eliminating it sounds a lot simpler.

Marius,
You seem to use the word "id" in a different way than I understand it. I take it as commonly defined to mean the instinctive biological drivers, desire (food, comfort, sex, power) and aversion not as something that can survive death. Maybe you could explain what you mean by "id".
The option of "nous programmer" sounds enticing. How would someone make themselves into a nous programmer, and what would they do then?
I agree with you on the "horizontal destiny/trajectory" description of Actual Freedom. I compare it to "flat-lining", a term used by some in Buddhist/enlightenment circles to describe someone who reaches a state of enlightenment wherein they have little motivation to get up off their cushion anymore. You hit a kind of evolutionary dead end. I spent some time there.
I think of love as a critical part of our evolutionary heritage. Evolution finds new ways to make life flourish, so does love. I treasure those moments in my life where I have experienced love, and I don't by any means restrict that to romantic love. I would not trade my feeling/experience of love in all it's forms for the very limited thing actualists call "fellowship regard".
I also have a preference for an open ended evolutionary path, which includes and makes the most of the capabilities we have evolved so far, including the use of the Internet. I still have hope for Buddhism, because it changes and evolves every time it enters a new country, and it has just recently entered this virtual new country we call the Internet.

I agree that what we are talking about has little to do with this thread title. I couldn't find the right button for starting a new thread, it simply eluded me, sorry about that. To address your query, my use of the term 'id' has nothing to do with the freudian definition of the term, Freud's use of 'id' might be best applicable to what we term the soul, one's instinctual passions. I use it in the same fashion as that used by the police or the customs officers when asking for your id, an identification document. Everyone has at least one real world id, most of us several, passport, driver's license, etc. The same applies to the informational, Hexus world. I use the term Hexus partly as a catch-all term for the other dimensions existence and also because I am not a spiritualist. I do believe however that there are other dimensions of experience possible (for humans). I consider enlightenment (the Self experience) to be a 6th dimensional program acting at the species level, in the same fashion as being a self/ego is a 4th dimensional individual program dealing with the 3rd dimensional real-world. What Richard probably did was deleting the 6th dimensional program associated with its Self together with the impersonal Entity itself. He probably had no choice in the matter, as the Self and its informational content are but one and the same. The ideal would have been to delete the program but to keep the Self intact and subsequently attempt some sort of reprogramming of the Entity, with the general aim of lifting the humankind's level of consciousness if for no other reason.That's basically the common objection of throwing the baby together with the bath water. The side-effect of what Richard did in order to both solidify his PCE as a permanent condition and enable peace on earth, was to block the access for a male identity to the Self experience. Is that worth the cost? I'm not entirely sure whether the 6th dimension can be reached by any other means other than becoming a Self. I dropped Satan in the equation as it seemed to me that his habitat was in the dimension above not in the one below the Self, which raises the very important question of whether the whole show, both spiritual and mundane, might prove to be diabolical from the start.To make the matter clearer, I'll you some examples of ids that I saw: a sparkling colorless semicircle, a ruby (as in precious stone), my id (a sort of Che Guevara poster), various colored coin sized ids (angels), a snake-like one, a black diamond, an ET looking one, and the list can go on and on. It is via/because of these ids that communication and various other things and events take place in Hexus. The interesting thing that I noticed, which is probably a law, is that once you see an individual's id, you definitely meet that person in the real world. It's a long post, I'll stop here.

how does one man's actions change something for every other male identity on earth? it would seem to me that his mental rearrangements have nothing to do with some monk in a secluded monastery

Describe the experience of these dimensions please.




An enlightened individual lives in the 6th dimension? The 4th dimension is the dimension of the common lot? Do any individuals only live in the 3rd dimension with no self/ego? Are these dimensions experiences, points of view or actual places? How does Einsteins theory and string theory fit into this cosmology?




Let me try to clarify this and have you correct me where I misunderstood you: Richard deleted the enlightenment program and the ego program and also cut all ties to the impersonal entity. It would have been better for him to delete the enlightenment program but keep the ego program and his ties to the impersonal entity in order to consciously reprogram the entity for the betterment of humankind. Because it's impossible to reprogram the entity without an ego. I'll let you correct me before I ask any further questions.




How does Richards actions prevent others from accessing the "male identity to the Self experience"?




Do you see an id every time you meet someone and if not then when do you see another persons id?

J: Describe the experience of these dimensions please.

# The most recent experience that I had concerns the 5th dimension. It is the experience of complete nothingness, there is nothing there, that is from the point of view of the intellect, affect and motor functions. It is a baffling experience as these brains are normally stuffed full of contents in order for one to properly function in the real world. It is these brains operating programs, social and instinctual conditioning per actualist lingo, that constitute the self. As I said before, there's no difference between the ego and the programs that it consists of, with the above mentioned functions acting like a hardware storage device. The 5th dimension experience is highly comical as one is faced with the impossible task of translating nothing into something, so that the human machine brains can have a chance at understanding it. They don't. While the experience lasted I couldn't stop laughing, I was laughter personified. This dimension is where all potentialities reside, it is the place from where one can forge his/her destiny, become a creator of one's own reality.

The 6th dimension experience is amply discussed on the AF website, so I won't dwell on that. Suffice is to say that the enlightenment experience provides a somewhat unilateral, preset account of the 6th dimension, in the same manner as a self provides a sometimes skewed and sometimes accurate account of the world it lives in. Both of them are programmed entities.

The 4th dimension is time, symbolized by the Ouroboros (saw its id), the eternal return. What we perceive as the third dimensional world is but a selective mirror for/of the 4th dimension, an illusion when viewed from behind the mirror, it is what the eastern spiritual establishment calls maya. On top of that, the mirror is dirty as the self pastes his own reality over the sensate world. We think when picturing Time as being a line, whereas in actual fact it is a continually renewed cycle. To give you an example, I saw someone entering time from another dimension. Her entrance formed a continuous white trajectory that dissipated after a few seconds, she stopped next to where I was. She probably had the ability to manipulate Time, speeding it.

I call the 7th dimension Sirius. It is the experience of Satan, a red flying dragon, that is synonymous with that. By entering that dimension one is capable of altering the outer reality, do all sorts of wizardry. The atmosphere around me seemed to liquefy, it is a highly unstable, powerful and dangerous experience as one's existence/thoughts enter in direct contact with the underlying tenures/fundamentals of the world. One has a direct impact on the destines of others. It is not to be played with, sort of standing on the tip of a sword, a carefully balancing act. To enter the 7th, one has to be thoroughly prepared, primarily by understanding the laws that govern it.

The 8th is remote, some form of thinking machines operate there, dealing with/in probabilities. Vesica Pisces is an entity of that dimension.

J: An enlightened individual lives in the 6th dimension? The 4th dimension is the dimension of the common lot? Do any individuals only live in the 3rd dimension with no self/ego? Are these dimensions experiences, points of view or actual places? How does Einsteins theory and string theory fit into this cosmology?

# Yes. Yes. Retards, Imbeciles. Actual worlds operating under a different set of laws, the greater the liberty level as you go up. I must WARN, both you and others, that it is a negative hierarchy, designed primarily for energy transfer purposes. I have no idea about string theory except some hearsay that it deals with probability waves which humans automatically transform/transfer into everyday reality. As for Einstein's theory, I don't believe that many people understand it. I don't for instance so I'll pass without an informed comment. My opinion on the matter is that he tried to understand the right thing with the wrong tool, the intellect. The intellect does a fine job in the 3rd dimension and it can be used as a backup/reality check/corroborating tool for the experiences of the other dimensions, but that's about it.

Me: What Richard probably did was deleting the 6th dimensional program associated with its Self together with the impersonal Entity itself. He probably had no choice in the matter, as the Self and its informational content are but one and the same. The ideal would have been to delete the program but to keep the Self intact and subsequently attempt some sort of reprogramming of the Entity, with the general aim of lifting the humankind's level of consciousness

J: Let me try to clarify this and have you correct me where I misunderstood you: Richard deleted the enlightenment program and the ego program and also cut all ties to the impersonal entity.

# Richard deleted the ego program and then the Self program, what you term the enlightenment program.

J: It would have been better for him to delete the enlightenment program but keep the ego program and his ties to the impersonal entity in order to consciously reprogram the entity for the betterment of humankind.

# No. I said that it would have been better to delete the enlightenment program but keep the Entity (Self) intact so as to reprogram it (provided it would have been possible in the first place). Perhaps he could have done that at the crucial moment when he realized that what he was doing was in fact the same-same thing all the other enlightened humans did in the past. He choose to Self-immolate which meant that the whole package, both the Self/Entity and its informational structure, was deleted. I said nothing of the ego and its program (beliefs, attitudes, prejudices, virtues, etc) in the sentence you requested clarification upon.

J: Because it's impossible to reprogram the entity without an ego. I'll let you correct me before I ask any further questions.

# You just made the whole concept unnecessary complex. To put it simply, the entity/ego/self and its program/information are one and the same; the Entity/Self/God and its program/information are one and the same as well. Where you got the idea that "it's impossible to reprogram the entity without an ego" is beyond me as I said nothing about 'ego' in the whole paragraph. What I inquired was whether the possibility existed that Richard could/might have deleted the program associated with the Self, yet keep the Self intact, so that the door could remain open for other humans to experience enlightenment in the future.

Me: The side-effect of what Richard did in order to both solidify his PCE as a permanent condition and enable peace on earth, was to block the access for a male identity to the Self experience.

J: How does Richards actions prevent others from accessing the "male identity to the Self experience"?

# All I know is that I experienced enlightenment through a female identity. If that is not sufficient proof/explanation for you, than the fact that he killed the Absolute (somehow misnamed) might answer your query. The fact that he chose to use different and perfumed words to describe his action doesn't miraculously change the correct name for his deed. You cannot experience something that is dead. Perhaps dead is not the right word, extinct will do. The Self-immolation process that he undertook was not at the individual, personal level, it took place at the species level. God is but a name for the species informational matrix-like structure, aka the Self. At that level, you and me are one and the same. It is true that your Self looks different from mine, yet it is of the same essence, what is called the Ground of Being. It is but the same Being with a multitude of faces so-to-speak. It used to be half-female and half-male, two in one, now the Absolute lacks his right arm and leg.

Me: The interesting thing that I noticed, which is probably a law, is that once you see an individual's id, you definitely meet that person in the real world.

J: Do you see an id every time you meet someone and if not then when do you see another persons id?

# As I explicitly stated, you always first see a person's id and then you meet him/her in the real life.

Marius

Yeah, AF and Jobs, what a boring post title. Tarin, would you please rename it something appropriate?
Thanks for explaining your use of the term id. It reminds me of the "Ka" part of the Egyptian soul.
Of course I go farther than than to raise "the very important question of whether the whole show, both spiritual and mundane, might prove to be diabolical from the start". I see it as a done deal. We humans, in our stupidity, have already put all the infrastructure in place in the third dimension, so SATAN can run the whole show while drinking Mai-tais and getting his nails manicured at the St. Regis Hotel in Bora Bora. Let the stupid humans do the heavy lifting.
Satan (or Oprah, or any of a dozen powerful diabolical entities) could simply employ MK-ULTRA to run this little AF enterprise as one of many alpha testing sites to see which one would run well enough for a wider audience. Obviously a slow starter in it's original form, but the beta version through the DhO may pick up steam. Under a rigged game, human beings, working together to achieve high ideals, will always manage to ensure their own enslavement. All in the name of "world peace" that elusive carrot dangled before us since the 60's. How much progress have we made since then?


No, not worth the cost, in my opinion for Richard to block male access to the 6th dimension. But if he did, like you say, he probably had no choice, funneled in by the momentum of his best intentions. Now HE gets to put on his captain's hat and party like Hugh Hefner, while the REAL boss looks for a suitable female to block the other half of humanity from the 6th dimension. They always stay one step ahead, it seems, while we play catch-up on the internet.
I always have preferred the Absolute to Richard's description. Too bad he fucked that up. Oh well, I can barely handle 4 dimensions anyway, on my best days. I'd probably trip over my own feet in 6 dimensions.

I need to find a new teacher.

The fact is that many males have gotten enlightened since Richard got actually free.

The fact is that you are both by now so enveloped in your own imaginary world with your own imaginary satans, that you can hardly speak any sense. Upon questioning Marius along these lines, I was told:



Please refrain from posting more of this fairy-tale non-sense and keep the discussion oriented towards actual meditative practice. For instance, you Marius could share the kind of things that you were doing in order to have these experiences (rather than assume that your threshold of understanding is above that of a common person). Or you could start a practice thread detailing what you are actually doing nowadays. No more of this ramble, please!

I second what Bruno said. Could you please say how one can "delete the enlightenment package"? I mean practice wise, in layman's terms, practical advice in line with the nature of the DhO.

Thanks.

Bruno, I would like to say that Marius' 'fairy tales' might actually be no more fairy tale than me thinking I'm sitting here typing on a computer keyboard. A buddha would look my way and say: "There is no keyboard! It's all Light!". It's all a big story isn't it? Life.... a big imaginative story our ego weaves, until the day we realize otherwise? Unless we know what Reality is in actuality (and I don't necessarily mean that in an AF way), Marius' fairy tale is as good as mine. His world has satan and dragons and goblins, mine has stresses with work and money. Is there a difference?

I realize that every day functioning and happiness need to be considered. A therapist might say: "how well is that working for you?". Maybe Maruis is doing battle on his demons this way. Maybe he will find out that satan is in fact a shadow of himself. Maybe not. So long as he is not harming anyone else, I'd say it's ok. Surely the jhana junkies (I'm assuming that's what we're looking at here) eventually tire of swinging between good and evil, then seek to be free of both?

Once in here I was complaining about god and misfortune and so on. Florian told me to really get to know this god, my god in intimate detail, by watching, observing without judgment. What a great bit of teaching right there! He could have said "forget it, you're imagining that god", which wouldn't have worked nearly so well. In fact it wouldn't have worked at all because that would amount to him denying my experiences. Couldn't Maruis get to know his satan in the same way?

Well I hope marius and you get happiness and all that from whichever practices you engage in.

And while we could discuss our views of religion in private, if you would like, this forum exists to discuss practice (and it is only recently in threads like this that I understand the value of that emphasis). I am actually interested to know if Marius was engaging in some meditative practices or not, and what were the overall circumstances that brought about the episodes he reports (which happened over the course of three years), much more than the specific content and stories which were fabricated. I have contacted him privately over the issue, and he was neither interested in a different perspective on his experience, nor in need of any help managing himself (as he says he is sane and functional).

But I doubt he will contribute in any practical way, given the first sentence of the first post, and his overal choice of subject-matter and level of engagement in this so-far-utterly-futile thread.

What you call the hexus David Bohm called the implicate order.
I notice a pattern and say "Let the stupid humans do the heavy lifting." and lo, the stupid humans rush in to prove my point.
They will not understand this, fooled by their own beliefs. I call them stupid not because of their IQ, but because they don't use their intelligence. They believe, and interpret their reality through those beliefs. They do not respect you and can only imagine that they understand you.
I do not respect THEM because I can see ALL THE WAY AROUND THEM. They act like whining pussies and would rush to mommy to report my bad behavior if they had any justification to complain. I would advise them if they don't like this thread, to take their candy asses out of the Dharma Battleground. I joke around with you, but you have my respect. I can't see all the way around you. I have not had any direct interaction with Richard and crew.
Respect,

G

WTF???

Message has been removed because message have special character which are not able to parse.Please contact to administrator

i want to suggest that what you call Enlightenment here is not Enlightenment as we use it or as Richard used it. it isn't a state you drop into and out of - it's a permanent shift in your baseline consciousness. that would be why Richard didn't simply "exit the Enlightened state" - such a thing is not possible. what you call Enlightenment here sounds like what we call the A&P, which is indeed a temporary state.


i'm not so sure. i've only read your posts here but here you don't describe anything phenomenologically, you just use dimensions and Satan and Hexus and others which sound really weird and a bit crazy, but that's not to say it is - you simply haven't given us any context or framework to put it in, so it will be quite difficult to communicate anything effectively to us unless you take more time to describe things. when you did provide a phenomenological description just now, "a nuclear bomb of white light/energy", well, a lot of people here have experienced that very thing.

it also didn't seem to me that your intent was to share or exchange anything, but simply to rail on Actualism and this forum in general. that's also not likely to get anything productive done. it has been interesting reading your posts, though.

Marius K: Both Enlightenment, which I experienced for about 3 hours and the Mr. Red Dragon experience (Satan is a loaded term), which lasted for about 10 minutes, were spontaneous events. If I were to compare the two experiences, the first one would be a nuclear bomb of white light/energy while the second can be best described as a powerful vortex of red light/energy.

BCDEFG: i want to suggest that what you call Enlightenment here is not Enlightenment as we use it or as Richard used it.

# I beg to differ, it is as Richard used it. I have no idea of what you mean by Enlightenment, your different definition of it, other than my inference that you consider true Enlightenment to be a permanent state.

BCDEFG: it isn't a state you drop into and out of - it's a permanent shift in your baseline consciousness. that would be why Richard didn't simply "exit the Enlightened state" - such a thing is not possible.

# The reason I exited Enlightenment was due to the fact that IT wasn't my Self, IT belonged to a female. It would have been insane for me to think that I am a Goddess and go on living as if nothing happened, to ignore the fact that IT wasn't my Self. I met Her, I liked Her a lot, we said good-bye and we parted. It wasn't possible for me to switch to/on my Self, the possibility simply didn't exist for the Absolute to manifest Itself as my Self. That's why I said that Enlightenment, same type that I had, provided we're even talking of different types, is no longer possible for a male identity. Been there, saw that. You might be of a different opinion but you'll have to bring some hard facts, like some examples of male individuals that became Enlightened after 1992. I mean Enlightened, not self-realized... these latter ones come by the dozen. The whole experience happened in 1997, 3rd of July.


BCDEFG: what you call Enlightenment here sounds like what we call the A&P, which is indeed a temporary state.

# Temporary it was. Please explain what you mean by A&P.

Marius K: As it's crystal clear to me, there are no individuals on this forum with an even remotely resembling set of experiences with the ones I had so as to swap notes. That's a fact. Due to this fact I have previously said that the general level on this discussion forum is low. And I maintain that assessment.

BCDEFG: i'm not so sure. i've only read your posts here but here you don't describe anything phenomenologically, you just use dimensions and Satan and Hexus and others which sound really weird and a bit crazy, but that's not to say it is - you simply haven't given us any context or framework to put it in, so it will be quite difficult to communicate anything effectively to us unless you take more time to describe things. when you did provide a phenomenological description just now, "a nuclear bomb of white light/energy", well, a lot of people here have experienced that very thing.

# Could you please name these individuals so that I can have a read through their relevant posts?

BCDEFG: it also didn't seem to me that your intent was to share or exchange anything, but simply to rail on Actualism and this forum in general. that's also not likely to get anything productive done. it has been interesting reading your posts, though.

# I tend to agree that disparaging this forum's general discussion level wouldn't conduct to a productive atmosphere, yet I don't regard the consequences as more important than the facts, or at least what I consider to be facts. I might be proven wrong, of course, I'm open to that possibility. What I wrote was not intended as an insult in any way, shape or form. It was a direct observation that I made and I decided to voice it. It might be proven correct or incorrect, that's why I am here, to find out. As for my railing on Actualism, I would better describe it as an informed critique. To make matters clearer, I am not against Actualism, I have an ambivalent attitude towards it. I spent in excess of ten years investigating it and I did that partly because I saw its potential and partly because it was so new to human experience (cognitive dissonance). The actualization of that potential is probably what attracts you, the possibility of realizing one's destiny as a body. I simply provided an alternative by stating that we have ids as well, beyond the self, the soul and the Self. These ids can/might want to have a destiny of their own. This is a subject one finds no information on and for very good reasons, I simply filled a gap. Via Actualism, one becomes a psychological zero, becomes a body only. Via the body, a direct connection is activated that links one with the entire universe as one is of the same same substance. The general universe is indeed infinite. However, our universe is finite. When viewed from the outside, it looks like a yellow sphere enveloped in a superb darkness. There probably exist an infinite number of these spheres/universes, I call them beads, floating in that wonderfully illuminated darkness. It is with that infinite darkness that Richard made a direct connection with. It is something extraordinary that he achieved, no argument about that. I have simply chosen to follow a different route, the conceptual framework of it I laid out in my previous posts. I chose to follow my id's destiny, or if you will, create one, and that's probably because I'm more of a Promethean personality/type. For instance, it is via/thanks to my id that the above information is possible.The power-wise, inter-dimensional hierarchy of this universe is negative, or to put it more bluntly, it is fundamentally corrupt. What Richard opened the way for is the possibility for humans of steering clear of this all pervasive corruption by becoming physical. Take the information about our universe as an idea/model to tinker with, if for no other reason than for it to be unbelievable/unconceivable. It is for the first time that such an information enters the human public domain.

Be well,
Marius

what do you mean by 'self-realized'? male individuals who became enlightened (as i use the word) after 1992: Kenneth folk, daniel ingram, tarin greco, trent hoag, nickolai H, me (though not sure if i'm fully done yet within the system i'm following), etc... lots of people on this forum and on Kenneth Folk Dharma.

as far as i can tell, Richard's enlightenment was a permanent state, and as such more similar to (if not the same as) what is called 4th path on this forum than what you term Enlightenment.


sure. in the insight tradition followed here, you meditate by observing all the sensations that make up your reality. you begin to go through identifiable stages, each with its own flavor, called the progress of insight. the A&P, or the Arising and Passing away, is the 4th such stage. it manifests very differently, but common things are: seeing white lights, seeing everything vibrating really fast, blissful feelings, a feeling that something big is about to happen, a feeling that you're enlightened, etc. there's a good description of it in MCTB.


here's the most recent excerpt i can remember:

[link]

as for the rest of the post: to each his own! you seem to agree that actual freedom eliminates all of the things you're attempting to develop (e.g. the id). to me, that seems the route to go, as opposed to continuing to develop it. i'm pretty set on this, so i won't be digging into your stuff with too much detail and as such i can't really comment on it.

hi gardol,


while i cannot know whether or not anyone has said something to your or their mother(s), no complaints about your 'bad behaviour' have been lodged with dho site moderators. however, your above post certainly justifies such a complaint, as the name-calling you have engaged in is disrespectful and gratuitous, and is not in 'the spirit of mutual, supportive adventurers on the path...'. as such, it has no place anywhere on the dharma overground discussion forum, including the 'dharma battleground' forum category, which is a place 'where flame wars, battles, and high controversy should happen with all the compassion, listening, clarification, passion for the truth and intelligence [which can be mustered].'

from the 'frequently asked questions' page:



please consider this reply as a request that you be respectful and that you follow the basic guidelines of this site.

tarin
site moderator

ps that the dho's founder and owner has given actualism a space (long before he ever became interested in its practice) on his website has been very generous, as the topics of an actual freedom and actualism in general have caused a significant amount of controversy and conflict here in the past, and that the 'actual freedom/actualism' category even exists on this discussion forum has been problematic for some of its participants (and, accordingly, former participants). as such, those who have arrived here as actualism practitioners/ex-practitioners/opponents (that is, anyone who came in order to be involved in the actualism/actual freedom discourse) should bear in mind that they are not likely to be entirely welcome, and that a good number of others here may find them out of place in the context of the site's greater culture, which is emphatically meditation-oriented and heavily influenced by buddhist and various mystical practices. therefore, such people ought be particularly careful to be polite and unoffending, as their behaviour will reflect poorly on the entire actualism community (or, in the case of impolite and offensive actualism opponents, will make the actualism community look very well by contrast).

FireGolem: what do you mean by 'self-realized'? male individuals who became enlightened (as i use the word) after 1992: Kenneth folk, daniel ingram, tarin greco, trent hoag, nickolai H, me (though not sure if i'm fully done yet within the system i'm following), etc... lots of people on this forum and on Kenneth Folk Dharma.

# I think you and I have different opinions on what Enlightenment means. For me, it is the direct experience of the Absolute. By becoming Enlightened one becomes the Absolute, one becomes God, one becomes one's Self. One's consciousness expands in all directions, its upper limit being the Earth's stratosphere. Are the individuals you mentioned Gods-on-Earth?

By self-realized I mean people who became self-conscious and awake. The immense majority of humans live in a dream state, sort of a waking sleep.

FireGolem: as far as i can tell, Richard's enlightenment was a permanent state, and as such more similar to (if not the same as) what is called 4th path on this forum than what you term Enlightenment.

# Richard was Enlightened as he satisfied the criteria that I mentioned above. Do the individuals that you mentioned satisfy that criteria? Are they God? Yes or no.

I don't believe in god, my own thoughts and politicians. But if you mean that the sense of centre point of the an illusory "self" has fallen away and leaves a very vivid and continuous sense of "being" (that I now see as equal to affective feelings of all kinds) that can seem to pervade everything and anything, then yes, it is part and parcel of things that can be experienced post what is referred to here as 4th path. What you talk about makes me think 4th stage of insight of Arising and Passing Away. i had an "absolute" experience when i crossed this stage the first time 10 years ago.

Yet, I nowadays see even this "absolute" as illusory. Sorry, Marius. Maybe this place isn't a good fit for you. Although it'd be nice to hear practical phenomenological descriptions of your current experience and practice rather than have it peppered with terminology and mythical overtones and references to gods or devas or whatever that I can't relate to.

Nick :-)

Here is another description (in addition to Nikolai's):



In this video of dan ingram at cheetah house, someone from the audience gives a quote from an enlightened woman (roughly transcribed)

Daniel Ingram then goes on to say that yep, that's what he did.

whether they call it the Absolute or the Self or God or "unending awareness that is equally present in every state" seems only a syntactic distinction. having arrived to that state through much careful, goal-oriented practice, it's unlikely someone would mistake themselves as a God; having arrived to that state in an instant of realization, from baseline normal to that, it's easy to see how someone would call themselves God. either way i think it is the same state, and it is irreversible.

Nikolai: I don't believe in god, my own thoughts and politicians.

# It is a logical fallacy to insert God, your personal thoughts and the politicians you know in the same bucket. If that is the premise your post started from, then it is a false premise. I was talking about the experience of God, not the belief in It. Belief in God is the various religions main business. I assumed that most of the individuals on this forum were beyond that. As for your own thoughts, that's entirely your own and personal business. I would only suggest and wish for you to develop as many factual ones as possible. Politicians and their politics are an interesting lot, pathology wise.

Nikolai: But if you mean that the sense of centre point of the an illusory "self" has fallen away and leaves a very vivid and continuous sense of "being" (that I now see as equal to affective feelings of all kinds) that can seem to pervade everything and anything, then yes, it is part and parcel of things that can be experienced post what is referred to here as 4th path. What you talk about makes me think 4th stage of insight of Arising and Passing Away. i had an "absolute" experience when i crossed this stage the first time 10 years ago.

# I have no idea of what the 4th path entails. If you had an Absolute experience 10 years ago, then you were your Self during the time that experience took place. The Self is God, so you were God. Correct me if I am wrong, absolute wise.

Nikolai: Yet, I nowadays see even this "absolute" as illusory.

# Okay.

Nikolai: Sorry, Marius. Maybe this place isn't a good fit for you.

# I agree 100%. I have only read excerpts from David Ingram's book which seems to provide the foundations for most of the discussions going on here. He is a connaisseur on technical matters, practical tips and advice. It is not my cup of tea though.

Nikolai: Although it'd be nice to hear practical phenomenological descriptions of your current experience and practice rather than have it peppered with terminology and mythical overtones and references to gods or devas or whatever that I can't relate to.

# I have shared some of the experiences that I had. I appreciate the input I received on that as it allowed me to (re)view what I experienced from different angles. As for my practice, I don't practise anything. Meditation is medication. Spi^PharmaTM. My take on the matter.

FireGolem: In this video of dan ingram at cheetah house, someone from the audience gives a quote from an enlightened woman (roughly transcribed)
"body, feeling, memory, thought, and consciousness, sound sight taste touch smell and emotions, anger greed delusion, all are known, i know them all as they exist, in their own natural states, but no matter how much i'm exposed to them, i'm unable to detect, even an instant, when they have any power over my heart ; they arise, they cease, they are forever changing; but the presence that knows them never changes for an instant. it is forever unborn and undying. this is the end of all suffering."

# If by presence, she would have meant Presence as in the Absolute Presence, then yes, there is a chance that she was/is Enlightened.

FireGolem: Daniel Ingram then goes on to say that yep, that's what he did.

# Did what? No one does anything, for in the Enlightened state there is no doer. To put an end to this silly business I engaged both you and me, the Absolute cannot be described or talked about. It is partly for this reason that the ones that are Enlightened do not speak (much). It is not that they don't want to, they simply can't.

FireGolem: whether they call it the Absolute or the Self or God or "unending awareness that is equally present in every state" seems only a syntactic distinction.

# I agree.

FireGolem:...having arrived to that state through much careful, goal-oriented practice, it's unlikely someone would mistake themselves as a God; having arrived to that state in an instant of realization, from baseline normal to that, it's easy to see how someone would call themselves God. either way i think it is the same state, and it is irreversible.

# It is irreversible because the ego/self dies. It is not a question of mistaking themselves as a God... they are God. A rose is still a rose even if you or others chose to call it seroton. It has the same properties.

ah, okay. then yes, they became a God (as you describe it). i dislike using that word as it has weird connotations (when i hear God i think of the Christian God, which is not the same thing at all), and not all people who live that state consider themselves that. basically i think it's an imprecise phrasing. i prefer Nickolai's depiction, where the center point disappears.

you say "It is irreversible", but earlier I thought you were saying it is a state that can be exited, which is why you wished that Richard had simply exited it instead of doing what he did. which is it?


by 'did' i mean he undertook a meditative practice which resulted in becoming a God (as you describe it). of course, becoming a God, the final thing that did it, wasn't something done actively and with purpose, but practices were undertaken which led to that being able to happen on its own. you could say that it has a chance of happening, and that undertaking a practice dramatically increases the chance that the event happens until at some point is is basically inevitable.

do you agree then that male individuals have become Gods after 1992?

well, your regular Joe doesn't have the experiences you have. what makes you different from a regular Joe? It doesn't seem to be 'formal meditation' like sitting and staring at a wall for predetermined periods of time, but you still clearly do something to have these things happen, even if it's just contemplating the various dimensions you talk about. for example, you said:


well... what the hell does that mean?? haha. explain these parts (you don't have to, just an example of what we're looking for):

• I first got enlightened via a female id
• I reestablished contact with the 6th by going into the 7th dimension with my male id.

like, how did you do that?

Yeh, this is what I'm interested in too. It is not enough here at the DhO to say you've experienced this dimension and that dimension, but HOW one experienced this dimension and that dimension so that others can see if they too can relate to the actual practice and repeat your results.

If you came here to just say you experienced this dimension and that dimension and then go on to say that you don't think anyone else can and you are not going to share with the DhO how you did this, then it seen as pretty dodgy and here come''s just another guy (there have been others) who came to the DhO with a shady agenda to self-promote their own "view" of the world. I'm hoping that isn't the case here.

So if you want, please share the HOW with us Marius. I'm intrigued by all the talk of dimensions and satan and id etc. But you are using terminology that is not familiar. If you came here with the shady agenda then by all means don't share. But if you didn't then please consider sharing your knowledge.

This would then get us on roughly the same wavelength. DhO is all about repeating the results of other practioners becasue they are re-producible. If you consider that your experiences are not reproducible then like I said, the DhO may not be the best fit for you.

The DhO is not for chest thumping and saying, my enlightenment is better than yours. That gets old quickly. I'm not saying you have done this. I'm hoping your next reply will say HOW you experienced those things you say you did. Also, if you could please mention how one could possible delete the enlightenment package as you said Richard should have done, that'd be interesting and practical.

:-)

Nick

Edited to include: Marius said Okay, I get your point. Is he still the Absolute? Pardon me, but I didn't get that impression from watching the video. He just seemed to me that he is very adept at the technicalities required to get close to there. Close, but not a cigar.

Nick: So far all I see is chest thumping and the gets-real-old-quickly "view" of my enlightenment is better than yours.

FireGolem: you say "It is irreversible", but earlier I thought you were saying it is a state that can be exited, which is why you wished that Richard had simply exited it instead of doing what he did. which is it?

# It seems like it's a contradiction but is not. I could exit the Enlightened state, although it was probably possible because It was not my Self. My ego died, I likened the process of ego death to pulling an evil tree out of the ground (of being). Because I managed to exit it, I thought it would have been possible for others to do the same. It is not like you must have/recreate an ego in order to be able to exit that exalted state. You just need a normally functioning brain. It is made irreversible because one loves it, normal reality just doesn't seem like an attractive option anymore, indeed not an option at all. It's an orgasmic state of Being. Yet It can be exited, I am not the only one that had a temporary Enlightenment experience. One makes it permanent by an implicit choice.

FireGolem: Daniel Ingram then goes on to say that yep, that's what he did.

Marius: Did what? No one does anything, for in the Enlightened state there is no doer. To put an end to this silly business I engaged both you and me, the Absolute cannot be described or talked about. It is partly for this reason that the ones that are Enlightened do not speak (much). It is not that they don't want to, they simply can't.

FireGolem: by 'did' i mean he undertook a meditative practice which resulted in becoming a God (as you describe it). of course, becoming a God, the final thing that did it, wasn't something done actively and with purpose, but practices were undertaken which led to that being able to happen on its own. you could say that it has a chance of happening, and that undertaking a practice dramatically increases the chance that the event happens until at some point is is basically inevitable.

# Okay, I get your point. Is he still the Absolute? Pardon me, but I didn't get that impression from watching the video. He just seemed to me that he is very adept at the technicalities required to get close to there. Close, but not a cigar.

FireGolem: do you agree then that male individuals have become Gods after 1992?

# Not really. I am not saying that in order to win an argument or to prove that I am right and you're wrong, I have no desire to engage in a tug of war. I am not really in a position to judge Mr. Ingram either, and even if I was, I wouldn't do it. That was a comment made/based on an impression only, he just doesn't seem to me that he is a God. Whereas, when I look at Mr. Maharishi I get that impression. It is each individual's business to rigurously assess his/her own state, if for no other reason as to avoid ego-delusion. On the other hand, I do not accept watered down standards. I intended the whole thing as a standards/criteria discussion with the possibility for others, that claim post 1992 Enlightenment, to join in and prove me wrong on my assessment that Enlightenment for a male identity is no longer possible. To gain a refreshed perspective, perhaps it would be better if you could point me some Enlightened individuals/masters from the guru circuit.

I think there's two separate things going on here:

1) a perceptual shift. falling away of the center point. realizing eternal, undying awareness. the 'ego' doesn't die, although it can be seen that way if it happens suddenly, it's just that the mistaken perception that made it seem like there was a permanent ego is seen for what it is. this is an irreversible shift.
2) living in a state of orgasmic bliss. talking in the 3rd person all the time. dissociating from reality. spreading Eternal Love everywhere. guru-circuit stuff. this is simply conditioning and as such is reversible.

these are separate. all four combinations are possible:

no #1 and no #2: a normal person
no #1 and #2: a temporary state like the A&P state I mentioned; it will collapse and likely bring you much pain (called the Dark Night here).
#1 and no #2: the people i mentioned. they understand what their realization is, they understand that they aren't supreme Beings.
#1 and #2: people who attain it suddenly, like Richard, mistake the perceptual shift (#1) for being a God, and love that state (#2).

i think you're speaking of #2 when you talk about Enlightenment. i'm talking about #1. #1 is something that you can't get out of by an act of will - the damage has been done, it's there for good until the brain is damaged (e.g. upon physical death).

as for a male individual who has experienced #2 and (I don't think) #1 recently, what about this male individual?

also can you explain in what manner Richard's experiments have affected the potential for anybody else? i don't see the connection between his brain and mine on a level that would make whatever he does make something impossible for me.

Marius K: I have shared some of the experiences that I had. I appreciate the input I received on that as it allowed me to (re)view what I experienced from different angles. As for my practice, I don't practise anything. Meditation is medication. Spi^PharmaTM. My take on the matter.

FireGolem: well, your regular Joe doesn't have the experiences you have. what makes you different from a regular Joe?

# The experience that I had.

FireGolem: It doesn't seem to be 'formal meditation' like sitting and staring at a wall for predetermined periods of time, but you still clearly do something to have these things happen, even if it's just contemplating the various dimensions you talk about.

# I don't/didn't contemplate any dimensions, I have better things to do with my time. I write here mainly because I find it a fun thing to do and thought that it is a good thing to share, exchange views, etc. I simply pointed out that Enlightenment is the experience of a programmed Entity of the 6th dimension, the Self by any other name. I just pointed out in a previous post what got me to the point of experiencing both the Absolute and Satan. I didn't do anything consciously in order to have these experiences. They were perfect storms so to speak, the direct result of a number of events that resulted in singularities. A singularity cannot be replicated.

FireGolem: for example, you said:

"Marius K: I first got enlightened via a female id and then I reestablished contact with the 6th by going into the 7th dimension with my male id."

well... what the hell does that mean?? haha. explain these parts (you don't have to, just an example of what we're looking for):

* I first got enlightened via a female id
* I reestablished contact with the 6th by going into the 7th dimension with my male id.

like, how did you do that?

# That female id, actually her Self, belonged to my former girlfriend. Forward 12 years in time and I entered the seventh, which is but the satanic world, a world/dimension backed by what I term the Sirius type of energy. I had no exit from that world also partly because the 6th dimension was blocked, my Self didn't exist there so I could not link up or get help from. It's not that I was physically in that 7th dimension, yet my identity was entangled in there. It is the dimension that is responsible for the way things are run here on Earth, the Illuminati, the main intelligence agencies (especially military), secret societies, the whole power show can be traced back to a couple of sources in that dimension. They are the puppet masters. Satan is but an entity of that dimension and the long term administrator, boss for some, of the blue planet. I eventually managed to break free form there, and did that primarily via my motor function. It was dangerous and complicated what I did. I won't dwell into the specifics. The essential thing that I learned is that this universe is corrupt, and it gets even more so as you go up dimension wise. For instance, I think that in the 8th dimension there are some form of Thinking Machines having as a secondary role that of collecting life energy, the 9th is for ships, in the 10th there are the Black Suns. These latter entities absorb energy instead of radiating it. The 11th dimension is the bomb, our universe, the yellow sphere. On top of our universe there are two gigantic black poles, forming a V shape. It is via the universe's black suns network that these two poles get their energy from. In between the V, there is generated a blue energy field. You can say that it was a hell of a ride I went through. Take the above as a model only, you simply don't have the experiences to back it up, or if you will, to truly understand what it entails.I answered because you asked, it would have been a dishonor towards you if I was to try and sweeten the pill.

It is funny... I have got to the point of asking myself what is it that you are after, here at Kharma Aboveground? I got carried by the wave and forgot the essential.

ah i see. so basically, things happen to you, you make sense of them as they happen, and that's that. you don't strive to develop in any particular direction or make any volitional effort to produce certain results?

what was the first out-of-the-ordinary thing that happened to you? how did it happen?


either you missed my point or i'm missing your point - how did you enter the seventh? did you try to? did it just happen?


it certainly sounds like it. how did you come to understand that, for example, on top of our universe there are two gigantic black poles in a V shape? do you just have an experience, then reflect on it, and your resultant understanding is what makes sense of that experience?

thanks for that; no need to sugar-coat anything here!

heh yea that happens. i came here cause someone from another forum recommended i read Daniel's book, Mastering the Core Teachings of Buddha. I read it and adjusted my practice to do what the book recommended and had questions, so i asked them here. as i continued it seemed that the book wasn't full of BS but actually made sense, so i kept following it and asking advice from more experienced members here and giving advice when i felt i could help another member.

ah but why did i start doing the practice in the first place? good question. i took a bunch of E early last year and that showed me (even though i had tried alcohol + weed) that there is far more to reality than i previously thought. that sparked my interest in meditation, which i had started doing only a few days before that event.

Nikolai: Yeh, this is what I'm interested in too. It is not enough here at the DhO to say you've experienced this dimension and that dimension, but HOW one experienced this dimension and that dimension so that others can see if they too can relate to the actual practice and repeat your results.

# If by HOW you mean for me to provide a practical guide as to how to get there, I cannot. The reason is simple, I didn't do anything, as in undertaking a practice, to get there. Perhaps, a quote from Lao Tzu could clear things up a bit: "the way/path that can be described is not the real way."

Nikolai: If you came here to just say you experienced this dimension and that dimension and then go on to say that you don't think anyone else can and you are not going to share with the DhO how you did this, then it seen as pretty dodgy and here come''s just another guy (there have been others) who came to the DhO with a shady agenda to self-promote their own "view" of the world. I'm hoping that isn't the case here.

# I am indirectly highlighting my view of the world. Yet I do not promote it, I simply find such an action disingenious, whether coming from my person or others. I do however have strong opinions on certain matters and I like vigorous debates... sort of the BBC Hard Talk type.

Nikolai: So if you want, please share the HOW with us Marius. I'm intrigued by all the talk of dimensions and satan and id etc. But you are using terminology that is not familiar. If you came here with the shady agenda then by all means don't share. But if you didn't then please consider sharing your knowledge.

# I just did share my knowledge, cosmologically wise for instance. The means through which I gained that knowledge are complex. I don't completely understand them myself. I have no agenda (to promote), except perhaps that of exchanging interesting things on interesting topics. Yes, the terminology I used was not familiar. I did my best to explain it.

Nikolai: This would then get us on roughly the same wavelength. DhO is all about repeating the results of other practioners becasue they are re-producible. If you consider that your experiences are not reproducible then like I said, the DhO may not be the best fit for you.

# They are not reproducible partly because of our current knowledge and the different set of circumstances that affect the lives of different individuals. The experiences that I had are now part of my psychological makeup, my weltanschauung as the germans say. These experiences cannot be reproduced, they were generated as a result of event singularities. DhO is certainly not the best fit for me. It is fun though. If I am not welcome, I'll just leave, it's as simple as that.

Nikolai: The DhO is not for chest thumping and saying, my enlightenment is better than yours. That gets old quickly. I'm not saying you have done this. I'm hoping your next reply will say HOW you experienced those things you say you did. Also, if you could please mention how one could possible delete the enlightenment package as you said Richard should have done, that'd be interesting and practical.

# I've tried to avoid falling into that vain, instinctual trap of my enlightenment is better than yours. I simply showcased some standards I thought as being objective. The aim, as you well know, was to find out whether Enlightenment is still possible for males post 1992.

Nikolai: Edited to include: Marius saidemoticon "Okay, I get your point. Is he still the Absolute? Pardon me, but I didn't get that impression from watching the video. He just seemed to me that he is very adept at the technicalities required to get close to there. Close, but not a cigar."

So far all I see is chest thumping and the gets-real-old-quickly "view" of my enlightenment is better than yours.

# Hmm... perhaps if I were to put it this way: I would be delighted to hear that there are still Gods walking the Earth. If for no other reason than adding spice to life, you can imagine the thrill of finding out that the postman is in fact God incognito.

FireGolem: ah i see. so basically, things happen to you, you make sense of them as they happen, and that's that. you don't strive to develop in any particular direction or make any volitional effort to produce certain results?

# It is not like that. It is more a case of a continuous, impersonal play of two forces, active and passive, or if you prefer positive and negative, or active and resisting. I tend to play as/with the third force, the neutralizing; perhaps that's the missing key in understanding the how of my experiences. This force appears as if it doesn't do anything, however everything happens because of a third force. The interplay of these three forces is simple. Let's say that you want to become Enlightened, your actions towards that represent the active force, the resistances on the way represent the negative one, whereas your aim represents the neutralizing, third force. It is via the third force that the Absolute can enter the equation and provide guidance, provided the intent behind your actions is crystal clear. It is basically the same process that ensures success in any other endeavour. In the case of actualism, you have got to develop pure intent to back the HAIETMOBA? question, which represents the active force, the negative force is one's social and instinctual conditioning, the third force being none other than the purity and perfection of the universe as seen on TV (joking), as experienced in a PCE. The non-doing of Mr. Lao Tzu is nothing but a practical advice to become (as) the third force in one's life.

FireGolem: what was the first out-of-the-ordinary thing that happened to you? how did it happen?

# The first out of the ordinary thing that happened was a PCE that I had at age 18. I can hear even now the sounds made by the drops of water falling from the trees after a heavy rain as I was with my girlfriend in a deserted park. The atmosphere was crystal like in its sensuous purity. It was as if the droplets of water were speaking to me directly. That experience came back to me while I was working on a tropical island in Australia, the Whitsundays area. I became interested in a perfume by Guerlain named Apres L'Ondee, which roughly translates as "after a heavy summer rain". You can read a review here: http://boisdejasmin.typepad.com/_/2006/11/apres_londee.html. I intended it as a gift for the birthday of the woman I was with during that evening in the park, which was but the same woman whose Self I experienced later on. I wrote "Ou dian si lian" on the bottle and sent it. Immediately afterward I was discreetly invited for a rendez-vous. Due to that successful rendez-vouz with what appeared to be a very important and powerful individual, Satan entered the equation. He offered me 50 mil. USD so as to play in the same team with him. The money team subsequently and duly arrived with the bag and I refused. From that moment on, all hell broke loose.

FireGolem: either you missed my point or i'm missing your point - how did you enter the seventh? did you try to? did it just happen?

# It didn't just happen, there was a train of events that led to the experience of the 7th. In the paragraph above you can find some of the events that led to it. I was not after getting into the seventh dimension, my previous worldview precluded the existence of Satan, I was heavily involved in actualism, living close to what is termed as virtual freedom, in and out of it. I knew nothing of the Mr. Red Dragon existence, I was not a christian and because of that I was initially taken totally off guard. I didn't even knew what it was during the direct interaction.

FireGolem: it certainly sounds like it. how did you come to understand that, for example, on top of our universe there are two gigantic black poles in a V shape?

# My id was aboard an ET spy ship and as such I saw everything through/via my id. My id was probably taken aboard the ship because on that Che Guevara like id, on each side of it, there are 7 elongated cigar like 'things'. They are weapons. One of them was detonated, probably destroyed the entire Sirius information system. It was probably because of its successful detonation that I finally managed to exit the 7th dimension. At one point I was alone in there, scary stuff. The weapon was taken, I saw it forming an X, and then an energy blue-like explosion wave. Don't think of these ET ships as being like UFOs, they don't look at all that way.

I said that I have an ambivalent attitude towards actualism and Richard, on one side because of what he did (his Self-immolation), as he left me without entrance into the 6th dimension, sort of precariously hanging on the cliff of K2 without any possibility of coming down. On the other side he (his zero) was instrumental for the successful penetration into our world of this alien life-form. I met a very interesting couple on a ferry-boat in the Whitsundays area, the presence of our 3 ids formed a triangle, Richard providing the zero that encompassed the three of us. That's the symbol for the Absolute, the real, ultimate one. The junction where our 3 H1 ids met became an all possibilities point. Via that point, as I was looking at the sun, this alien life-form entered our world. It is probably the Absolute ship, coming from beyond that all-encompassing darkness, straight from the 13th dimension. That meeting will prove to be one of the most important events ever to take place. She was caught on the BBC automated camera. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR6dsXjBv0Y

The games took place at an extremely high level.

FireGolem: do you just have an experience, then reflect on it, and your resultant understanding is what makes sense of that experience?

# It is part of the process, yes. However, I prefer live.

Marius: It is funny... I have got to the point of asking myself what is it that you are after, here at Kharma Aboveground? I got carried by the wave and forgot the essential.

FireGolem: heh yea that happens. i came here cause someone from another forum recommended i read Daniel's book, Mastering the Core Teachings of Buddha. I read it and adjusted my practice to do what the book recommended and had questions, so i asked them here. as i continued it seemed that the book wasn't full of BS but actually made sense, so i kept following it and asking advice from more experienced members here and giving advice when i felt i could help another member.

# Yes, it seemed to me genuine as well. Practice wise, it's probably 4-5 stars. It is perhaps of this genuineness that I'm posting here. I like to chat, yet I realize that what I have to say probably comes to you, at least initially, as some lunatic's ramblings.

FireGolem: ah but why did i start doing the practice in the first place? good question. i took a bunch of E early last year and that showed me (even though i had tried alcohol + weed) that there is far more to reality than i previously thought. that sparked my interest in meditation, which i had started doing only a few days before that event.

# Mentioning reality, seeing that women fly through this apparently rock solid reality made me reconsider its fundamentals. It might be no more than a self-referential, continuously generating program. I also saw individuals simply disappearing out of my eyes, one moment they were there, next they were gone. And that's only a small part of what I witnessed. I have to stress that I am of sound body and mind, but I had brief moments when my mind simply went into shut-down mode, it simply couldn't cope with all that was happening.

Thanks, Beo; this is a nice articulation. I think this goes a long way towards describing what the pragmatic dharma scene is about, and how it contrasts with less rigorous scenes like the neo-Advaita guru circuit and the esoteric occult scene.

Not to say members of the two latter scenes never experience #1; surely they do, and some of them even understand the distinction you are making. Does this distinction make sense to you, Marius? If so, what do you make of it in your own experience?

@Marius: btw, I find your cosmological notions entertaining and interesting in general, and while I have had many occult/esoteric experiences which, upon reflection, seemed to imply grand cosmological systems of similar idiosyncratic complexity, I now prefer straight up science fiction or fantasy stories when it comes to that sort of thing. I still enjoy reading occult writings-- theosophy and so on-- for entertainment purposes, but I do find it rather odd that you would come to a forum such as this (i.e., pragmatically oriented towards Beo's #1 above, which is apparently independent of cosmological "knowledge" as the same perceptual shifts seem to have occurred for members of different cultures and epochs throughout history, all of whom had very different cosmological beliefs and many of whom had cosmological mystical experiences in addition to Beo's #'s 1 and 2).

I know you say you came here to share views and experiences on interesting things, and am glad you are doing so. I just get the nagging suspicion you are a well read, eccentric 14yr old who has too much time on his hands and doesn't play outside enough :-) Then again, perhaps you are what you seem to be implicitly claiming, namely, one of the most insightful and profound esoteric occult-knowledge possessing gnostic revolutionary freedom fighters existing in the current age in this Universe, on a mission to discover the nature of Richard's disastrous mistake, and to see if you can heroically fix it perhaps, with the help of a band of like-minded genius occultist freedom fighter gnostics. If so, good luck and thanks for fighting the good fight on behalf of ignorant apes like us :-)

that's very interesting. now that we get into the nitty gritty i definitely can see what you're talking about with the three forces.

i like the way you break down positive, negative, and neutralizing. i agree with how your broke it down for enlightenment. for actualism, i'd say asking HAIETMOBA, the act of doing that, is the positive, the negative is the self/Self (like you said, just in other words), and the third force is pure intent.

actually, thinking about it more, i agree that the actual world is the third force. translating them into Buddhist terms, it seems like the positive and the negative are both aspects of the self/Self, and the neutralizing are the five aggregates - form, feeling (pleasantness/unpleasantness/neutral-feeling), perception, volition (intent), and consciousness. intent is just one of those. these don't have any 'power' in the way that the positive and negative do. these are all that is left when one is actually free. the self/Self is just various forms of clinging to each of the aggregates, e.g. people think they are their bodies (form), people think they are really the positive things that happen and cling to that (feeling), people think they are the way they see things (perception), people think they are their will (volition), people think they are their consciousness.

that is quite interesting. it seems a rarity that a man will just come up and offer someone $50 mil. not sure what to make of it =P.


what made you convinced that Satan actually existed, and wasn't just another manifestation of the self/Self? did you ever experience Satan in a PCE? what makes him real?


hehe yea that it did at first, like 'wtf is this guy talking about?' after chatting with you a bit it seems you are more or less sane (in some sense of the word =P), but have some wildly different experiences from me that i can't relate to. your cosmology is interesting and seems to have some structure to it. i don't think Richard's doings could have affected it in the way you say it did (blocking a dimension) if it were something actual, though, so i'm inclined to think it is just a manifestation of your self and that you'd be better off getting rid of the whole thing - and by becoming AF you wouldn't block your entrance to it, it's just that it was something that was never there in the first place - but to each his own of course.

Very funny.

Marius it strikes me as astonishing that you don't consider the possibility that these episodes could simply be hallucinations. Interestingly, a characteristic and repeatedly consistent feature of delusional hallucinations is that the person who has them thinks of himself as being in the center. You couldn't simply hallucinate a brand of galactic politics where you are some completely secondary and anonymous pawn. No, you was right there when one of the most important events took place, and you are so so important that Satan himself sends his minions to buy you off, and so so courageous that you refuse.

It really requires a massive ego to buy into this kind of self-grandeur.

It is a good thing to be aware that messing with the deep circuitry of our brain can cause such hallucinatory outbreaks. Reminds me of something Tarin wrote to me back when I was exploring the background of the mind (the process of subtle mind-whispers and pre-conceptual cognition lying on the edge of consciousness):



(my emphasis)

Interesting that it matches your experiences quite well hun Marius?

also seeing as it started happening when you were in a virtual freedom, Marius, and maybe close to AF, perhaps it is all just a massive lash-back of your self in an attempt to stick around.. an attempt which has succeeded perfectly.

Bruno, very fascinating quote from Tarin. makes a lot of sense.. has changed the way i think about the 4th jhana, or rather, put together a lot of stuff that seemed separate, a common ground for the whispers, the fruition, and the access by will to any jhana/nyana.

Indeed, very interesting stuff. Explains a lot of the fleeting wierdness of entering A&P as well as the (subtler but still wild) stuff in 11th nana and thereafter. Also interesting is the implication, if I'm reading this right, about the nature of cessation. This certainly accords with my bias in that regard, and reminds me of another Tarin quote, can't ermember where, in which, musing on the multiplicity of ways individuals may encounter various key experiences and insights, in various and unique sequences, he mentioned a suspicion that perhaps between SE and fourth path (and perhaps before and after? I can't recall the full implications of the vaguely remembered paraphrased passage), there's just a lot of chasing of one's tail, rather than an orderly sequence of Paths.

Marius, I really like your articulation of the three forces. Very helpful! And appreciate the Taoist twist on all this too, as there is much to be said for such an approach. I think of it as synergy: through bringing certain factors together in a certain way (i.e., on the ego level bringing the positive and negative factors together skillfully), the third force has an opportunity to flash forth (from utterly beyond the scope of the ego/Self)
--Jake.

FireGolem: what made you convinced that Satan actually existed, and wasn't just another manifestation of the self/Self? did you ever experience Satan in a PCE? what makes him real?

# Ha... he wasn't my self or Self. I can tell a dog from a cat, and a dragon from a parrot. Your second question is even funnier. The answer is no, although I would add the cautious opinion that having a PCE wouldn't safeguard one 100% against such an encounter. It will provide a good form a protection though, as Satan works by the law. In other words he would have to enter a crime process and that would have nefarious consequences for him as a crime process affects both the initiator and the receiver. As a general rule, Satan only acts when he has no choice, he is extremely balanced. Oh, he is real, he has been here for thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of years, he knows the human condition inside out. He is quite intelligent as well.

I will have to leave as the general discussion level on this thread started to deteriorate.

Nice chatting with you,
Marius

PS: Here's a sort of a good bye gift. Enjoy it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANf0IlJEO4

that's a matter of perception (telling a dog from a cat). people will say it's impossible to stop loving when they're in love and it will be self-evident to them.

i would recommend trying it next time you feel you might encounter him =P. I have a feeling you will only encounter him in between PCEs, maybe he will be the cause of coming out of them.

how so?

you as well!

Wow Bruno,
Thanks for that quote.

Can you elaborate more on this territory? I seem to stumble upon it from time to time,
the stronger one being after I had crossed A&P on a retreat a few years back, and coming back home and encountering some massive daily life thing with an ex, I then couldnt sleep for about 24 hours and heard these whispers while laying in bed unable to sleep.

This thread reads like an artifact of one of those occasions where it is time to increase the dosage of one or more of these; haloperidol, olanzapine, ziprasidone, haloperidol, flupenthixol, clopenthixol or risperidone. It may be best to spend several weeks as an inpatient as well, at least until satan and the computers from the eighth dimension are no longer a concern.

This is getting kept. It is quite possibly the most hilarious interaction I've seen since I used to frequent conspiracy theory sites.

Triple Think - That's a diagnosis for hilarity right there.

Agreed!! I've been reading this and wondering if it's mental health issues or a wonderful piece of performance art. Could go either way, but it's been enjoyable to read!

Some precocious tweenager out there has done us quite a nice turn, entertainment wise. If you're gonna troll, make it funny :-)

As far as performance art goes, I've been intermittently watching the occasional episode of the AF epic hip hop poem for quite a while now with mild detachment. Ordinarily I find it to be something like what I would expect if Samuel Beckett and Aldous Huxley were running a repertory theater in Dharmsala. So this was kind of like having the usual early evening show heckled by L. Ron Hubbard while he's high on ketamine. Tsk.

Given the content ordinarily someone would have strongly recommended a psych evaluation more promptly. I thought there was still a few MDs and misc. other clinicians around.

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Hey tarin, I guess I did not muster all that much compassion for this flame war, battle or whatever you want to call it. I mustered all I had at the time.
Maybe you shouldn't call it a battleground or say "flame wars" if you don't mean it, (flame wars include name calling by definition) but I won't argue the point. I've read and understood your comments.

Despite your seemingly fantastic writings, you have made your points well. The issue about power and sex; Vineeto are bang on. I do not know how do know what exactly happened with Vineeto but your description is as accurate as it can be if you are relying on info given on AFT site and your intuition and not the knowledge of the actual events; because this is exactly what happened for Vineeto: " I feel sorry for Vineeto as she had to forgo her intially correct common sense/integrity appraisal of the situation because she would have been implicitly ostracized from the only social circle she enjoyed and the lifeboat lifestyle it promised."

In due, more information will be available as to how and what transpired.