Hi all. I'm relatively new to the forum. I'm pre-path, and working towards SE.

I have some questions for experienced yogis about the Goenka style body scanning method. All my meditation from 2005 up to now has been in the Goenka tradition. Since I got onto MCTB and the DhO a while ago I've been building up my noting skills. However, I am wondering if there is anything of value to be gained from persisting with the body scanning method. Is it simply an inferior practice when compared to noting? Or, when practiced skilfully, is it possible that it is an equally effective insight tool?

So I'm wondering, are there any post-path yogis out there who used body scanning as the principle technique to achieve stream entry?

Are there any post-path yogis who employ/employed body scanning as a core component of their practice post-path?

Is there anyone out there who thinks that body scanning is a useful tool for a pre-pather working towards stream-entry?

If so, is anyone able to elucidate some of the finer points of body scanning practice from their own experience – for example, instructions that might diverge from or expand upon the standard 10-day Goenka instructions; or provide any tips, pointers, or suggestions that you feel you might have benefited from in pre-path body scanning practice.

Is anyone able to give suggestions as to how body scanning could be taken to the next level, as it were, and practised with a high degree of skill and precision?

Or is it simply the case that body scanning is just lame and cumbersome, and noting is the way to go? ;) Is it best if I just let go of this antiquated method, and focus on noting? ;)

I understand the commonly cited benefits of noting practice – for example by Kenneth Folk - ie “it keeps you honest”, it dis-embeds you from the various strata of the mind, it uses up the processing power of your mind, etc. Personally, I've found it an extremely valuable addition to my practice, and has really kicked things up a gear. I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there with a view on body scanning that might be helpful for someone that's been brought up in the Goenka tradition.

Cheers

Dylan

Hey Jill. Thanks for the really engaged response. I've been following your posts over the last few months, and I thought that you might be one of the people to have an insightful view on this topic. From reading your posts I can see that you adopted a real intuitive optimization of the Goenka scanning method...this is an approach that I would definitely like to emulate.




Well...I would call the progress I have made since getting exposed to MCTB and prag dharma significant, at least for me. I hit the A&P in pretty spectacular fashion on day 4 of my first Goenka course, but it took me finding MCTB a few months ago to put that experience into perspective. I've only held up a sporadic practice since 2005. After my first course I sat and served for a bit, but then wandered off and only seriously returned to the practice last year. I've been living at a Goenka centre more or less full-time for about 12 months. I've posted a thread on my recent stream entry “attempt”, which might give an idea of where I'm at. It's slightly embarrassing for me in hindsight, but I learned a lot.

Anyway, I think you've confirmed that I am indeed going in the right direction with my practice. While noting has brought a depth and rigour that wasn't there before (specifically the conscious aim of continuously dis-embedding or dis-identifying with all phenomena that arise in my field of awareness), the reason I posted these questions is because there is something about the body-scanning technique that I feel intrinsically comfortable with, and I guess I was fishing around for confirmation that it's worth pursuing. In fact what really interests me is the marriage of scanning and noting. You said:



I found this very interesting. Yes, from my recent experience I have definitely found that noting and body-scanning does join up and become a kind of cohesive, mutually-reinforcing practice. It was exactly this experience that I was hoping to have confirmed. I guess for me I simply find it easier, especially in the early stage of a sit, to focus on scanning, and as I get more focused, more concentrated, to incorporate more noting. I have been experimenting, for example, with trying to do an hour sit of just pure choice-less noting, but I find it much more difficult to get to the same level concentration and awareness as I can when I'm working with scanning.

So yes, your thoughts about differing natural tendencies ring true for me.

In response to my question:

"Is anyone able to give suggestions as to how body scanning could be taken to the next level, as it were, and practised with a high degree of skill and precision?"

you said:



Do you think another way to describe what you're pointing to here would be something like 'noting while having part of the attention anchored on bodily sensations?' If so, then this is pretty much what I'm trying to do.

I guess I'm at a point where I really need to have the confidence to embrace the spirit of free exploration and experimentation with my practice, while grounded in the fundamentals, to find out what combinations of things work best for me. So thanks, you've given me some confidence that I'm on the right track.

In another post I noticed that you said this:



Are you able to elaborate on this at all? One thing that I think about in my practice is that perhaps I'm not diligent enough about methodically moving through every part of the body. Do you consider that to be important? I have a tendency to give more attention to certain 'trouble areas', like the chest and throat. Any advice on this one?

Once again, thanks for the great response. I love this place.

Cheers,

Dylan

I've just come across this thread on KFD which addresses some of the questions I was raising above. I can see that for the old heads around here these questions have probably been long resolved. Now you're all off cultivating sensousness and triggering PCE's! ;) It's still interesting for relative newbies like me though.

The take-home message? "Scanning and noting [are] two tools that can be used together or separately". (Kenneth Folk)

The thread points out the danger for Goenka yogis is the common tendency to focus purely on physical sensations to the exclusion of all other phenomena, sometimes to the extent of denying or repressing emotions, which is clearly a hindrance to progress. This misunderstanding of the technique seems to be propagated by insufficient personal guidance and under-qualified instructors. It is indeed a shame, but from my own experience I have seen just how much time and energy goes into perpetuating this very kind of misunderstanding.

The good news? It doesn't have to be that way.

Hello,

I am very intrigued by this conversation since I have had similar experiences and questions...

I started out a Goenka "junkie", after sitting my first course in 2011 I sat and served on and off for about 9 months (which I unfortunately spent a great deal of rolling in thought and mind noise), but it wasn't until aftter that that I discovered MCTB and this website which has accelerated and focused my practice; although I am still working towards stream entry at least now I know what that is and have it to work towards!

I just sat a 10 day this month and I found noting to be a nice accessory to body scanning, in a sense that when I found my mind to be wandering I would note, "mind wandering" and it helped to keep me on track. I found that during the "break periods" noting was very helpful to keep my mind focused and present, for example if I was walking I would note walking and also try to feel the sensations in my legs. 

Jill- do you have any tips for staying present for the times not sitting and meditating? Like do you mainly focus on physical sensations while walking, eating etc as Goenka suggests or are you aware of other sensations such as sound as well? Continuity of awareness is something I find very challenging on courses, and I am especially distracted when making decisions like, "should I go for a walk? should I sit in the hall or in my room? should I turn here or here on the walking path?" I know that seems neurotically nitpicky but those type of small decisions happen often and I struggle to stay present during that type of thinking.... any suggestions?

Dylan- Since it has been some time since this post has been edited I would be curious to see how your practice has grown and if you are still practicing body-scanning, noting, or a combo.

Warmly,
Derya

I have asked several Godenka students how they were taught to deal with feeling tones thought and emotions. They said they weren't covered. Disembedding from physical sensations, feeling tones, mental condition/emotions and thoughts are, for me, best accomplished with a noting/noticing practice directly involving all 4 areas.. Does Goenka handle that in advanced courses.

This resonates with me Derya. Ive just chosen these periods as a really good time to practice acting on intuition. I do it when I am running sometimes too. What does my intuition say, and then do it, immediately. No thinking at all. Just intuition, then action. its great when you get in the flow. Makes you realise that your intuition is a beautiful thing and you build a trust in it and thats a wonderful thing.