| | End in Sight: EIS: An Eternal Now: "Clinging" is one component of the attention wave.
What would it be other than a discernible experience arising shortly after vedana?
So craving = attention wave, attention wave = craving? "Craving" is origin of, and the first discernible event, in the attention wave. AEN: End in Sight: And what, monks, is right view? Knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the stopping of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the stopping of stress: This, monks, is called right view.
Wrong view, then, is "not knowing right view".
Simple! Simple, but also not so simple, since if you want to discuss wrong views, you should discuss in terms of the 62 possible wrong views (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.01.0.bodh.html). Are those views dukkha or sukha? If they are dukkha, all one needs to recognize is "thinking this way is suffering", and right view is developed. No theory or analysis required. The three characteristics must be known, not just one, namely: anicca, dukkha, and anatta. In fact they go together.* Stream entry confers the 'ending of self-view', Arahant confers the 'end of conceit [of 'I Am']'. If for example, you merely recognise 'this thought is painful' but don't see that 'the view of self is false', then this current thought may subside, and yet the view of self remains intact, so new thoughts tainted with self-view will certainly arise. Without uprooting self-view and self-conceit via realization/insight and tranquility in tandem, there is no way defilements can be overcome. *“Is it fitting to regard what is impermanent, unpleasant, subject to change as: ‘This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am’?” “No, Venerable sir.” - a must-read, well-known sutra: http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Suttas/Anattalakkhana/anattalakkhana.html Here is a typical explanation of how the path begins: Samaññaphala Sutta: Suppose there were a man of yours: your slave, your workman, rising in the morning before you, going to bed in the evening only after you, doing whatever you order, always acting to please you, speaking politely to you, always watching for the look on your face. The thought would occur to him: 'Isn't it amazing? Isn't it astounding? — the destination, the results, of meritorious deeds. For this King Ajatasattu is a human being, and I, too, am a human being, yet King Ajatasattu enjoys himself supplied and replete with the five strings of sensuality — like a deva, as it were — while I am his slave, his workman... always watching for the look on his face. I, too, should do meritorious deeds. What if I were to shave off my hair and beard, put on the ochre robes, and go forth from the household life into homelessness?'
"So after some time he shaves off his hair and beard, puts on the ochre robes, and goes forth from the household life into homelessness. Having thus gone forth he lives restrained in body, speech, and mind, content with the simplest food and shelter, delighting in solitude. i.e. it begins with developing right view in the sense of developing the eightfold path, and the parts of the eightfold path that it develops first is right speech, right livelihood, right action, and (perhaps) right effort and right resolve. No theory, no analysis. Not even any meditation! According to Buddha, right view is the right understanding of four noble truths (supramundane level), the right understanding of things like karma and rebirth (mundane level). Four noble truths can be realized experientially, though at first of course it is good (the only way for a beginner) to understand it at least theoretically. Theories are useful - not something to be thrown away (until one has actualized it through experiential insight, experience), for navigating and understanding the path. Meditation is Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration If adjusting view floats one's boat, that's fine (that seems to be the domain of some of the Mahayana traditions), I am sure that can be practical too, but my point is that it isn't required by far. Adjusting view is important for beginner (some kind of theoretical understanding of the path) even in Theravada, or just from a purely pragmatic point of view* http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2011/06/the-core-features-of-pragmatic-dharma/ *If you emphasize practice too much you can get what Tibetan meditation master Chogyam Trungpa called “dumb meditators”—people who don’t understand what they’re doing or why. They never really got what they were supposed to be looking for, so they spin out endlessly doing a practice, which leads to something interesting, but not to what was intended.
Another pitfall of leaving out theory is that we find it difficult to integrate the experiences we’ve had into their lives. We have trouble because we are rejecting the importance of the thinking mind. Our complex mental abilities and highly developed brains are what make us distinctly human. Without complex thought it’s unlikely that we’d even be able to ask ourselves the important spiritual questions. Homo sapien is latin for “knowing man” or “wise man.” It can be a disaster if we throw out the “wise” part of our evolutionary heritage.
What’s encouraging is that if we can these helpful theories into practice, using them as maps to help us find our way, then we get into the business of having direct experiences ourselves. Through doing this we become internal scientists, and can begin to confirm, reject, and even build upon the theories we’ve been handed. Theories are alive and open-ended when we can test their validity. They are not the end point but rather the starting point for an incredible journey.However one more step than simply a mere 'adjustment of view' is to end false view altogether (which is stream entry) and then further to end the conceit of 'I am' (arhantship), which can occur through insight, through knowledge and vision of things as they are. About Richard and self-view...what is the origin of identification according to the Pali suttas? Craving. The entire path is about subduing craving. I know the point of subduing craving, but the path is the eightfold path, and the eightfold path leads to knowledge and vision of things as they are [realization, insight into dharma], without which end of craving is not possible.* * "The knowledge of destruction with respect to destruction has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge of destruction? 'Emancipation' should be the reply.
"Emancipation, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for emancipation? 'Dispassion' should be the reply.
"Dispassion, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for dispassion? 'Disenchantment' should be the reply.
"Disenchantment, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for disenchantment? 'The knowledge and vision of things as they really are' should be the reply.
etc... - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/wheel277.html "The destruction of the cankers, monks, is for one who knows and sees, I say, not for one who does not know and does not see. Knowing what, seeing what does the destruction of the cankers occur? 'Such is material form, such is the arising of material form, such is the passing away of material form. Such is feeling... perception... mental formations... consciousness; such is the arising of consciousness, such is the passing away of consciousness' — for one who knows and sees this, monks, the destruction of the cankers occurs. - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.023.bodh.html If insights were not important, the Buddha would not have extolled practitioners to investigate and see the three dharma characteristics. It does not even necessarily require that one have any explicit insight at all to subdue craving; one could sit in jhana all day and find, after coming out, that no craving was left. The suttas talk about that constantly. I do not see it as being possible as explained above: how could there be end of self-view, self-conceit if no insights were involved, if self-view still retains in the psyche? Also, jhana in the suttas need not be mere shamatha jhana, but it could be a mix of jhana and insight. It is not possible however, that dispassion could arise without knowledge and vision (insight). This is made very very clear not just in one sutta but throughout the canon. Furthermore, the Buddha have explicitly made clear that all who attains Arhantship does so with insight and tranquility in tandem: AN 4.170 PTS: A ii 156 Yuganaddha Sutta: In Tandem translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu © 1998–2011
On one occasion Ven. Ananda was staying in Kosambi, at Ghosita's monastery. There he addressed the monks, "Friends!"
"Yes, friend," the monks responded.
Ven. Ananda said: "Friends, whoever — monk or nun — declares the attainment of arahantship in my presence, they all do it by means of one or another of four paths. Which four?
"There is the case where a monk has developed insight preceded by tranquillity. As he develops insight preceded by tranquillity, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.
"Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity preceded by insight. As he develops tranquillity preceded by insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.
"Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity in tandem with insight. As he develops tranquillity in tandem with insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.
"Then there is the case where a monk's mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.
"Whoever — monk or nun — declares the attainment of arahantship in my presence, they all do it by means of one or another of these four paths."p.s. pure jhana without insight merely suppresses hindrances (temporarily), but does not end defilements This is why actualism is so cool. For a person who can pursue it this way, the whole actualist path could be: chill out, feel good, eventually have PCEs, eventually find that (after chilling out, feeling good, and having PCEs) that no craving is left. (As 'I' am 'my' feelings and 'my' feelings are 'me', with the absence of craving comes the absence of 'being'.) Daniel: What you are ultimately going for is not the PCE: that is like concentration, where as investigation is insight and is part of what may be necessary for attaining AF. - (Notes from Conversations with Trent and Tarin on AF Practice) http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1484905 |