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Practices Inspired by Actualism

Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?

Anyone who has it or can get a hold of it?

For reference part one.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/30/13 12:37 AM as a reply to do i know.
I wish I could hear a darn thing Tarin was saying. I'm interested in listening to this, but it is too soft.

Note: After posting the above, I tried listening with headphones, and this helped.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/29/13 4:03 PM as a reply to do i know.
Send a PM to willoughby britton on this forum, she is the director of Britton Lab who uploaded the talk (and i think is the person speaking with Tarin in the clip at cheetah house).

Please let us know if you find it as i would also be interested to hear.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/30/13 2:03 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
It does sound like it has been recorded in a desert storm but is understandable nonetheless. Think of it as a mindfulness/attentiveness exercise emoticon. Also i personally find Tarin's advice quite valuable so...

Anyhow, whoever has contact to miss Britton, please do ask her about that talk because it can be very valuable. There is just something special( a feeling tone emoticon hahaha) that is being communicated through speech.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/30/13 12:34 PM as a reply to Martin Potter.
I sent miss Britton a mail.
Fingers crossed!

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/30/13 12:37 PM as a reply to do i know.
Is there anyone here who knows Britton and can ask her about the talk?

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/30/13 8:01 PM as a reply to do i know.
do i know:
Is there anyone here who knows Britton and can ask her about the talk?


I am assuming it was taken down at Tarin's request after he said he did not know what an actual freedom was and therefore could not give advice on it in january or february of last year.

Nick

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 1:28 AM as a reply to Nikolai ..
I just talked with Tarin about his current state of practice, and I really wish he would say something or write something publicly, but he isn't at the moment, and so that is all I will say, except that his feedback would be of value, so perhaps others can talk him into some more engagement, as his current perspective is of relevance.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 2:19 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Well, if that is the current state of affairs, so be it.
Practicing with enough information certainly trumps waiting around for better information.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 2:25 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
It seems to be a recurring theme that the people with a high level of (claimed) attainment disappear from public view. I understand that the urge to participate in a forum like the DhO must be greatly diminished if one feels oneself 'done' with practice, but it would be so very interesting to have an update on the current state of life and practice of people like Tarin, Trent, Nicolai, you Daniel and any others in similar situations - both AF and any other type of practitioners.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 6:47 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Simon E:
It seems to be a recurring theme that the people with a high level of (claimed) attainment disappear from public view. I understand that the urge to participate in a forum like the DhO must be greatly diminished if one feels oneself 'done' with practice, but it would be so very interesting to have an update on the current state of life and practice of people like Tarin, Trent, Nicolai, you Daniel and any others in similar situations - both AF and any other type of practitioners.


Agreed! I hope they all know how appreciated their posts are.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 2:00 PM as a reply to bud ..
Nikolai and Daniel continue to post, but admittedly, after a huge amount of energy, enthusiasm, and controversy about AF inspired practice, there seems to be a major silence about it now. Everyone is "reconsidering" their positions, etc., blogs about the subject have been removed, AF inspired practitioners have gone into silence. I have no idea what to make of it all! I mean, do AF inspired practices produce everything it was at various points claimed that they do, or did folks go overboard in their claims? Are AF inspired practitioners free from affect and all that, or was this an illusion of some sort, or was it true but not sustainable? Tommy now clams no attainments in his Back from the Black thread. Richard from the AF Trust ended up being a nutter of some type, though I don't really know the details on that either. At some point, I'd appreciate if hardcore AF inspired practitioners could rally and provide the rest of us an update on their phenomenology, thoughts, and positions, or at least sum up the events which transpired into a coherent narrative. I have no stakes in this either way, but I am immensely curious to say the least. At one point it appeared that AF inspired practice produced results which called into question certain claims made in MCToB, but since no-one has clarified their positions as of late, I don't know where MCToB stands in relation to it all. I'm kinda just waiting for MCToB 2 to come out, hoping it will include the fore mentioned clarifications. After the explosion of experimentation and innovation and exploration into AF inspired practice, we need a state of the nation address.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 12:55 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Hey Alan.
I take it you have some doubt about what exactly is possible AF-wise. The fact that a few people we consider to be sensible non nut jobs (Tarin, Trent, Stefanie, Jill, Christian and possibly others) have been so sure as to possibly mistake their condition means that at-least that is possible i.e. being so happy and harmless so as to mistake it for the final attainment. And i would be happy with that( pun intended) ;).
Also the doubt itself is ripe material for investigation.

So good luck and have fun on the way to freedom.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 1:15 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Hi,

Alan Smithee:

Richard from the AF Trust ended up being a nutter of some type, though I don't really know the details on that either.


This has no basis at all, and has been debunked (again) in the AF Yahoo! list recently.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 1:31 PM as a reply to do i know.
Hello do i know,
As all the people you list seem to have stopped posting here we really have no idea how their condition had played out over time. Having someone come out and say - "Well, I've been AF(-ish) for a year now and things are just dandy." - or, alternatively - "So, I've been AF(-ish) for a year now and this just ain't all that cool, I've continued my practice in different directions." Either option would be really interesting. And this isn't exclusive to AF, hearing from any high level practitioners from any tradition would be interesting.

Admittedly, Daniel has repeatedly come out and said that he considers his practice to have accomplished good things, which is an interesting datapoint. Daniel has also occasionally updated the DhO regarding his current practice which has been very interesting, but as the founder of the forum he presumably has more inherent loyalty to it.

I fully realize that all of this has no particular benefits for my own practice, but I'm just a regular unenlightened peasant, so I'll just admit to being very curious.

Metta,
Simon

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 2:03 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Yes, yes, information is very good. That's the whole point of a community like this.
But my point was more along the line of "go see for yourself" and be the one to share how it is over there. Also i personally doubt that any of these people got worse. What has any appreciable probability of happening is that they possibly may have overlooked some very subtle aspect the identity.

Or given the fact that all of these people were at-least stream enterers and most of them were highly accomplished vipassana meditators(Jill for example supposedly did only vipassana to get wherever she is) something interesting to muse about is whether having attained to path N (1, 2, 3 or 4) in the Theravada sense changes the final result of development. So maybe both Richard and Tarin are without affect( do not experience being) but Tarin, having dropped more fetters than Richard may experience lack of affect + lack of something else(call it Y). This may happen regardless of the duration each spent without affect because Y may be a function of another variable.
This is my explanation for why Richard says that actually free people still experience pure intent vs. Tarin's report of the exact opposite in his experience.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 2:37 PM as a reply to do i know.
Life being what it is, "go see for yourself" isn't always a realistic option in the short term. I can't be the only one here with a job, children big and small, pets and any number of household tasks that leave very little time for a structured practice at this point in time. I still find the subject fascinating to discuss.

Metta,
Simon

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 2:55 PM as a reply to do i know.
Hi, do i know. Just to clarify:

do i know:

So maybe both Richard and Tarin are without affect( do not experience being) but Tarin, having dropped more fetters than Richard may experience lack of affect + lack of something else(call it Y). This may happen regardless of the duration each spent without affect because Y may be a function of another variable.
This is my explanation for why Richard says that actually free people still experience pure intent vs. Tarin's report of the exact opposite in his experience.


That can't be correct. The thing in summary is:

Tarin interpreted "pure intent" as a passional drive (a desire) to eventually get to the purity of the actual world (ie: getting an actual freedom). For example:

As documented at the AFT Website:

• : (...) what everyone i know who has done this has had in common was the pure intent (to arrive to such a state). this - pure intent - is clearly the most determining factor. (www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/460472#_19_message_460472).


And:

• : something that may also be useful to see: as ‘i’ am ‘my passions’ - which means my emotions, my drives, my desires, *i am thus also my intent*. what you want to have running is this: *‘i’ am pure intent*. [emphases added]. (www.groups.google.com/group/actualism/browse_thread/thread/0beb7f80dd4ca93b/11cd80a11248da87#).


Meanwhile, Richard affirms that pure intent is (and, at the same time, comes from) the purity of the actual world itself:

Richard: Pure intent is derived from the purity of the PCE (which is when ‘I’ spontaneously cease to ‘be’) and everything is experienced to be perfect as-it-is at this moment and place ... here and now [...] Pure intent is a manifest life-force; a genuinely occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in the perfect and vast stillness that is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe.


As no affective contamination can get into that purity, Tarin then said that he has not pure intent anymore. So, apparently, there are two options here: 1) Tarin is not actually free because he never got in contact with pure intent (purity) or 2) Tarin is actually free despite his misinterpretation of the original term "pure intent". It can't be the case that, in actual freedom and actualism, "pure intent" could be considered a "fetter". Tarin only claimed that he dropped "pure intent" (as another passion) just as he claimed to drop all passions.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
1/31/13 2:51 PM as a reply to do i know.
do i know:
Yes, yes, information is very good. That's the whole point of a community like this.
But my point was more along the line of "go see for yourself" and be the one to share how it is over there. Also i personally doubt that any of these people got worse. What has any appreciable probability of happening is that they possibly may have overlooked some very subtle aspect the identity.

Or given the fact that all of these people were at-least stream enterers and most of them were highly accomplished vipassana meditators(Jill for example supposedly did only vipassana to get wherever she is) something interesting to muse about is whether having attained to path N (1, 2, 3 or 4) in the Theravada sense changes the final result of development. So maybe both Richard and Tarin are without affect( do not experience being) but Tarin, having dropped more fetters than Richard may experience lack of affect + lack of something else(call it Y). This may happen regardless of the duration each spent without affect because Y may be a function of another variable.
This is my explanation for why Richard says that actually free people still experience pure intent vs. Tarin's report of the exact opposite in his experience.


The reason I'm doing vipassana practice now is because of what the Buddha reported and instructed, and what innumerable practitioners over hundreds and hundreds of years reported and instructed, not to mentioned what Daniel reported and instructed in MCToB. Sometimes we need to rely on the reports and instructions of those who have taken the journey before us so as to help guide our own choices, decisions, etc. I would really appreciate a coherent and open discussion of AF inspired practices by those who have the experience so as to assess whether it is something I should dedicate my time and energy to, as opposed to the multitude of other available practice options out there. Plus, as I wrote earlier, some of the claims made about AF experiences differ from claims made about what is possible in MCToB, so I'd like to know what my relationship should be to this text.

RE: Secong part of Tarin's talk at Cheeath house?
Answer
2/5/13 5:45 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Hi Alan,

I have been practicing actualism for almost two years. It is working and I will continue to pursue an actual freedom. I'd be happy to answer any questions/discuss my practice with you via Skype or some other method. Please let me know on this thread if you have messaged me with details as I usually do not check messages.

Adam