Author: telecaster
Forum: Daniel's Practice Hut

I'm starting off in my sittings to note the in and out of my breath as it touches the inside of my nostrils. Then, as a strong sensation arises I go to it and try to really explore it as long as it exists. As soon as a stronger one arises I move to that one. These begin to come so quickly that noting seems cumbersome. Often I don't go back to my breath at all or note at all. I just keep noticing and exploring (but not noting) each sensation as I feel them.
These sensations seems to be: twitch, itch, tickle, jerk (my spine and/or head will jerk a bit, not too violently), chills (which to me is a sort of "spiritual" feeling when there is a sort of a pleasant chill to the hair/scalp or sometimes my arms in which 'goosebumps' will appear), pain, thought, desire, dispapointment, tightness, sadness, etc.
So, any problem with dropping attention to the breath and noting and just silently noticing sensations as they arise?

Probably good to do some pure samatha practice from time to time (if that's why you're following the breath so closely), but other than that...go nuts.

[Edit] Also, the silent noticing is fine as long as you try to make each vibration/sensation distinct.

Author: telecaster

Thanks. For some reason I have no interest in samatha, maybe later?
And, so far no "vibrations," but I feel when I do that may mean I am progressing.

If it helps, conceptualize each of your current notes as a really big/slow vibration. Thus, if you begin noting the sensations in the finger, you'll progressively note more and more of them until you've completely dissected the sensations of the finger down to the smallest divisible unit. That unit is a vibration, kalapa or whatever you want to call it.

Author: telecaster

Me again.
Now I'm not so sure about dropping the noting. When I don't note my tendency to lose concentration seems stronger but when I do note I go longer without losing concentration. And, the sensations seem to get stronger and easier to observe.

Sup,

Only my opinion of course, but here are a few suggestions. Try 'em or not!

You're having trouble following the sensations without noting, because the noting is probably acting as a pseudo-mantra to keep your mind on task. Try repeating a set-phrase in your mind such as "note note (pause) note note (pause) note note (etc)." After a few minutes, it'll become habitual and automatic, and will keep your attention steady on the task. If your mind begins to wander at all, it'll wander into the mantra, which will remind you to "note!"

That said, you may really want to reconsider doing some samatha jhana practice. The root of your issue is likely that you're trying to learn how the mind "moves" and also do insight practice at the same time. All of the ways the mind needs to learn how to move for insight can be learned much more easily and straight forward through that avenue.

Bare in mind that you're not just dealing with the quality of the mind "concentration;" which is the strength of your mind's ability to sense the subtle sensations of the mind. You're also at a stage where you're learning how attention (the direction of your mind) can be stabilized, and how focus (the breadth of the sensations you're viewing; eg: wide or narrow) can be worked with. Each one of these topics are incredibly subtle, detailed, interlinked, and take a lot of work to really have solid control over. Again, these are dynamics of the mind which will undoubtedly come into play when you're dealing with insight, from the first mind & body to arhatship.

Best,
Trent

i think trent's advice above is excellent, but i want to chime in as well, and in response to the original post:

if you can kep your attention on task (that is, on any sensations, one by one as they occur), then there is no need to either note or not note, and no need to go back to the sensations of the breath.

however, if your mind wanders, then try changing a variable to see what that does. try going back to the breath. try noting. try not noting. try feeling your butt's contact on the ground. try feeling your whole body 'at once' for a moment and taking that to be one note/one sensation. different things will work for different people, and different things will work for the same person at different times. it is worth playing with, just to get to know yourself and your own habits.

i personally advocate 'hitting with the mind', rather than verbal noting, and doing it as fast as you can. both noting and 'hitting' share this same quality of suddenly and immediately bringing attention to a sensation as soon as it occurs, but the advantage of 'hitting', i find, is that you wont stumble over the possible awkwardness of how using a verbal note can make you hesitate or think too much about the 'what' of the note (which is sometimes useful! but not generally). i think of this 'hitting' as 'transparent noting' in that it retains this quality of directing attention to the fact of its own movement but doesnt 'cloud' the view of what attention is moving onto (the sensation that beckons it).

that you're even exploring this territory at all is a good sign, and one that reads.. continue!

tarin

Author: JuliaMay

A further question. When noting, I often have the sensation that in some way, I am "moving my mind" to my sensation, rather than observing the sensations. Perhaps the antidote would be to note the movement (I guess that would be the 3d Foundation of Mindfulness) as well as the sensation. But I wonder if anyone has felt a difference between moving the mind to sensation vs. allowing sensation to arise and how to navigate?

julia,

you're doing all right there, as the sense of moving the mind, when it occurs, is part and parcel of the experience of investigation. a sensation occurs, and there is an echo - that echo is what can seem like the mind is moving. it's often called 'consciousness' (as in eye-consciousness or ear-consciousness or body-consciousness or mind-consciousness) in buddhist-speak.

the instruction that is often given to address this point when queried is that you should try to aim at getting the mind to attend to the sensation that arises as quickly as possible, so as to catch the arising itself. keep doing this, from moment to moment, and impermanence and no-self will make themselves clear, as suffering probably does already .. hence your sense that there is something happening that requires an antidote.

nutshell: the fact that you're noticing this means you're doing fine, carry on.

Author: telecaster

Okay, I sat for the longest I ever have today, about 80 minutes.
Nice.
I didn't watch my breath or note, I tried to "hit" sensations with my mind. I know this is just the beginning, however, I was able to slow things down a little more than usual and see my sensations and thoughts pop up and leave a little bit here and there.
The experience was more along the lines of getting a glimpse for what might be next to explore and see rather than actually getting any big insights.
Still, the world is brighter and I continue to feel more brave in daily life, if that makes sense.
There really is a lot going on that I've never seen before.