Crossposted from Reddit. 
​​​​​​​
Blessings and metta to all who are reading, thanks for everyone's help thus far. Essentially I am still integrating the kensho(?) experience I had 2 days ago. Things look different now, I'm aware of the mind's pull. Everything also looks a little luminous and more "real" Sometimes when sensations occur (sounds, body) there is no sense of "me" sensing them.This is where it gets a little confusing for me. While resting and dealing with my IRL stuff, I still intend to keep going - whatever this was, it's only the beginning. However, the information online is vast, and I'm not sure who to trust TBH, especially as spirituality can be somewhat subjective.For instance, I've spoken to proponents of the P2F method who think I have awakened, but xabir (The Awakening to Reality blog guy) doesn't think it's awakening. For me, I can only relate authentically what I have experienced.There are tons of maps and models online, so I'm not sure which to follow. I've looked at Daniel Ingram's Maps of Insight, but a lot of what he writes doesn't tally with my experiences (my sense is that maybe I'm not too deep in yet?) I don't think I have experienced the A&P. A lot of the material also uses tradition specific language, which sometimes gets messy.(In terms of my own tradition, I'm Unitarian Universalist. I believe all Gods are one, and I approach meditation/non-duality from largely a Buddhist perspective. I mainly identify as Christian, Buddhist and Shinto.)I try as far as possible to stay away from doctrinal conflicts and existential inquiry (like how can I believe in God if I am Buddhist) because I feel that (as the Buddha taught) it serves no purpose and doesn't actually result in less suffering or more awakening, which are my goals.So while reading is all well and good (and I have perused many of the great suggestions given) I'm not sure what my next step should be. I've stopped with the self-inquiry for now. I still meditate in the sense of letting go and just being with whatever comes.The guiding voice I've heard tells me to bring my attention to the body, where I feel a kind of energy that connects to the whole world (if that makes any sense? It's similar to something I read in the Power of Now)I'm spurred on by a sense that real progress is possible in this lifetime and that true awakening is not something reserved for monks and ascetics. (I've read similar sentiments online which gives me hope)The ultimate goal of all of this is not only spiritual progress for myself but some way in which all this can benefit all. I'm only one person in a world of 8 billion, after all May all living things be well and delivered from suffering.

Can you elaborate your current practice so other members perhaps can offer better guidance?

I had no idea the formatting would get so messed up. Apologies, I can repost if needed, it's hard to read. 

I did intense self-enquiry to get to what I think is kensho. After that, I pray and meditate during the day. I have stopped self-inquiry for now, waiting for the experience to settle. It still feels a little strange at the moment, my sense of "I" is no longer attached to the mind, it feels like "I" am everywhere. 

I have previously done some shikan-taza, walking meditation, seated meditation and lots of prayer and therapy. I have had jhanic experiences before. In the interest of full disclosure, my practice has been sporadic - some years I do a lot, some not at all. Recent events have sort of forced me into the awakening. 

My view is that progress is best measured by how much less suffering you experience and by how much less selfish and less self-centered your actions are.

So feelings of not being/having a self may occur but are not of primary significance in my opinion. 

I also find that Daniel's map doesn't tally with my experiences. The map, progress of insight, is Therevada not really Daniel's. I think many of those stages exist but I don't think they come in the ordered sequence described in the map, so the concept of "cycling" also doesn't make sense to me, and I think what people call dark-night is not always related to meditation. 

Whether your experience is awakening or stream entry or kensho, in my opinion is also not of much significance. Shinzen Young says (paraphrasing) most of his students awaken gradually and don't notice any significant event to mark a milestone. 
https://www.lionsroar.com/on-enlightenment-an-interview-with-shinzen-young/

The Buddha said that awakening is gradual:

https://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/59.2a-Atthaka-Uposatha-S-1-a8.20.pdf
My view is that everyone has some amount of enlightenment and you can increase it by practicing meditation and mindfulness. The path is like a ramp not a series of steps - so milestones are arbitrary.  My advice is to not worry about milestones, measure your progress by how much less you are suffering and how your behavior changes to be less focused on yourself, less ego-driven.

The way I practice is to do tranquility meditation to relax and quiet the mental chatter. Then to observe the activity of the mind (thoughts, emotions, impulses, sensory experience (including sensations in the body that accompany emotions), sense of self) in meditation and in daily life. (Practice in daily life is very important.) When you observe the mind this way, you notice dukkha arising and fading as your tranquility is disturbed and as it returns. You also notice how the ego is involved in dukkha. So in doing this you observe the three characteristics (impermanence, dukkha, anatta) and dependent origination. As you observe dukkha arising and fading you begin to see how dukkha is something you are doing to yourself, at first it seemed involuntary but later seems to be intentional but a habit that is hard to stop -  so you begin to change the habit - relax, let go of dukkha, without suppressing anything. You learn to interrupt the sequence of dependent origination. As you learn to interrupt the origination of dukkha you suffer less. As you interrupt and let go of the ego driven suffering, as you interrupt and let go of the action of the ego, you become less self-centered. Over time practice becomes becomes an integral part of normal life, not something to achieve in the future, not a special state to attain. The Buddha never stopped practicing. He taught the monks to live practicing mindfulness.

So just continue practicing? I agree with you that I think it's glimpses, not one-shot awakenings. Though those happen.

I'm not certain where to go after this though. My practice didn't get me anywhere for long until I did hardcore self inquiry for 10 hours, then the kensho happened. Do I just do more self inquiry? 

Have you seen any of Angelo Dilullo's videos (https://www.youtube.com/c/SimplyAlwaysAwake) or read his book (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/58045165)? 

I ask because he works with the Self Inquiry -> Sudden Initial Awakening -> Deepening model. He is also very accessible and clearly highly realized and a very good person. My understanding is that he is happy to talk to people, and he has lots of Zoom-based group stuff.

I just sent him a mail today, and yes I read his book. He seems to be on the money. 

Excellent!

A carpenter's tools can be used to build many different things.

Meditation and mindfulness are also tools and they can be used to accomplish different things too.

You have to decide what you want from your practice and choose techniques that can produce the effects you desire and then use the techniques appropriately.

Your goals are up to you.

My goals are to suffer less and to be less selfish and self-centered. I've explained how I practice.

Some people aim to end the sense of self, of being an observer and the sense of agency. Daniels book can tell you how to do that.

If you are looking for something else, maybe if you say what it is, someone can suggest something.

Any awakening type experience is A&P.
Some times more obvious because it ends fairly quickly and some times less obvious because it is more permanent change or absolutely permament.
That said nothing in this reality is truly permament - if it however lasts you your whole lifetime it can be considered permament enough.

A&P nana can be thus jokingly called as Awakening & Path ;)

So A&P - yeah, you definitely got at least one right here.

This might be of interest to anyone wondering what some of the possibilities are:

https://inquiringmind.com/article/2701_w_kornfield-enlightenments/


The article discusses many different types of enlightenment.

I would say that I want to dissolve the barriers between myself and God/Divine. I've been reading a lot for decades, and after that experience I'm convinced constant presence is possible. Perhaps even some of the states spoken about in advanced practice.

The thing is there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut map? I was skeptical about the Maps of Insight. I just am not sure how to progress other than by continuing what I am doing. 

Hard to sift through the amount of information online, so I am confused. Also, my IRL situation is complex and I need to sort that out. 

I had an awakening experience that surprised me. Looking back what would have been most useful for me to hear at the time is: Be gentle with yourself. Take some time (weeks, months) to enjoy the new perspective. Do a practice that you find grounding. There is no need to try to make progress all the time. Keep poking around for approaches that resonate and teachers, without urgency. Don't stop, but don't hurry. 

Have you heard of centering prayer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centering_prayer

Also yoga means "union" as in union with God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga
If anyone is interested there is a lot to research on these topics particularly yoga of which there are many forms.

Bernadette Roberts is probably the best known practitioner or centering prayer.

These two sites about yoga might help:

https://swamij.com
https://www.tripurashakti.com

Videos from tripurashakti.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3IuLQhIIEQ
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1Jbs2ujzFLqxDNej4u7KjvqLtuatrCAi


This article mentions many different cultural traditions
https://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/03/realizing-ultimate.html

Thanks, I have not heard of that specific practice before, but I know some of the ideas around it.

I haven't had good experiences with yoga (a session once triggered a series of spasms, perhaps due to trauma) so I have been leery of going back to it.

​​​​​​​

@cyath So what's the plan going forward?

Right now I need to rest and deal with my complex life situation which includes visas and a long-term illness.

I still maintain my meditation practice and try to integrate my kensho with my daily life. I may eventually return to self-inquiry.

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure where to go after this. I was spurred into self-inquiry by a strong sense of "this will work" as well as spiritual visions and voices. Unfortunately, spirituality seems to be like everything else in life in that opinions differ, sometimes quite widely. 

Sounds like rest would be a good idea.

Would you enjoy checking in with us again a month or two from now, to report on how you are doing?

If following maps of insight, and you did cross A&P, dissolution and darknight might follow - having people say you aren't crazy if that happens can really help. If darknight occurs, you might have to practice diligently for a while to stop it. Practice might also need adjustment; "going wide" with investigation often helps.
If you attained a path, I guess things would mellow out, and you might be able to confirm the attainment by learning to repeat fruitions, or by finding jhanas easy or having new depth to them.

I don't mean to script you, you may never hit a darknight at all (many don't).
Reason I write this is so you could have  a simple strategy to avoid risk and feel certain going forward, despite a complicated life situation.
What do you think?

This is a lifelong pursuit for me, so I'll be checking in when I can.

>If following maps of insight, and you did cross A&P, dissolution and darknight might follow - having people say you aren't crazy if that happens can >really help. If darknight occurs, you might have to practice diligently for a while to stop it. Practice might also need adjustment; "going wide" with >investigation often helps.

I don't know if I crossed A&P or not, but I've had many significant spiritual experiences before. I have encountered things similar to Dark nights in my therapy and other practices - having to deal with intense negative emotions.

>If you attained a path, I guess things would mellow out, and you might be able to confirm the attainment by learning to repeat fruitions, or by finding >jhanas easy or having new depth to them.

I have not had difficulty entering jhanas before, that was when I was meditating daily and quite intensely. 

Thanks for your help. Spirituality really is tested when it hits real life, if not it's all clouds on the cushion. I hope to continue making progress. 

If you ask people for advice you will get their opinions, but it but in the end you know best what is going on in your own mind and have to decide for yourself. If you like self-inquiry, if it seemed to give you good results, you can just keep doing that despite what anyone says.

That seems to be the case, I have been overloaded with information.

My only concern is that can I just do self-inquiry? According to Angelo's book, there is no "second" awakening. Does self-inquiry still work? 

https://trilliumawakening.org/always-awakening-continuing-playful-exploration-self-inquiry-life/

In my own way of thinking I would put it this way:
There is more to meditation than awakening.

Any technique will quiet the mind so you can observe it in meditation and in daily life without getting carried away (distracted) by thoughts, emotions and impulses - this mindful observation of your mind lets you understand how suffering and self arise and fade and how self (ego) causes suffering - it gives you a chance to change your mental habits.

That is how people deepen their awakening.

The first recognition of awakening might come suddenly, but after that it is a long grind to full awakening.

There is a big difference between the first experience of awakening and full awakening. In the beginning there are subtleties of the question of self-inquiry that are not answered fully.

More about Ramana here:
https://www.nonduality.com/ramana1.htm
https://selfdefinition.org/ramana/quotes/sadhu-om-self-inquiry.htm

The goal of Buddha teachings is not dissolving barriers to God but to get put out like a flame in a candle.

If you are interested in union with God then maybe you should consider Advaita?
Its direct goal is union with Brahman.

You might find many opinions are these are the same realization/enlightenment and even contemporary Buddhist traditions took the whole concepts of non-duality from Advaita like it made any sense in context of Buddha's teaching.
Basics are similar but there are enormous implementation differences near the end. Not that many people get to the point where these differences start to matter anyways but still they do exist.

Some of what was posted resonates with me, the rest just makes me more confused. I know that right now I don't identify with mind, only with consciousness, and that that consciousness feels "everywhere". I'm not sure exactly where I am now haha.

I did indeed delve into Advaita, that's how I got here.

I'm familiar with Buddhist language, but I believe all Gods are one God and I don't usually like to debate doctrine (as it says in my badly formatted first post) 
I've had spiritual experiences that cross all religious boundaries.

I feel I can deepen my awakening, but not sure how. Further self inquiry? 

Then it might be Sālokya, the first stage of Jīvanmukta

STAGE 1. The first stage is called sālokya — corresponding to the waking state of consciousness (jāgratā) — the realization that the entire vast universe of billions of galaxies and universes is all pervaded by the Divine Consciousness. (Viṣṇu means That which pervades the entire universe and everything in it.) It is the undifferentiated Ocean of Being. When this stage is achieved then the person is freed from the idea that the world is separate and independent from us and that it is an ultimate source of abiding pleasure and joy.

At first there is still assumption of local agency. Local is the key here. Just feeling we are one isn't automatically leading inertia of mind to stop. It doesn't happen at 2nd stage but things happen as they happen with feeling of unity but there is nothing tangible about cooperation of various parts of reality, no real connection is felt. It changes at 3rd and aspects of ultimate reality starts to emerge. 4th is more like God acknowledging you than personal attainment and this acknowledgement deepen over time.

At first it might feel like no such acknowledgement is needed and it is not needed but "God" is not only God. Likewise true non-duality is not only about non-duality.

As for practice: technically you can do it in any way you want. What is really important is asking right questions and not missing right answers.

BTW. While not the same it is possible to attain at the same time Nibbana and True Self or as it is called in Vedanta: Jīvanmukta. Doing it like this makes you "cooler" ;)

Also, me: totally separate being with solid self and all that jazz. Any random stone lying by the roadside is more enlightened than me

Hi Tai An Zhou Zhou, welcome to DhO!

You can classify Enlightenment practices along the Subject-Object spectrum, most of which are somewhere in the middle. There are other models like the Energy ones that may look totally, but eventually there are just preliminary practices for the Subject approach. Here in DhO, most practitioners start from the Object approach (and noting is a clear example of that), while in Advaita, Zen, Dzogchen, Christian Welcoming Prayer, etc fall on the Subject camp (and self-inquiry/koan/surrender is common to all). Regarding 2PF, that's a mix approach but more akin to the Subject camp, but that's just my best guess.

Here in AtR's abridge guide (Xabir) you'll find what practices come next, after Kensho (how to transition from Stage 1 to Stage 2 in that model). Mainly, you work on four aspects of your experience: Impersonality, Effortlessness, the Intensity of Luminosity (the vividness mentioned in your OP) and letting go the anxiety of returning to the Pristine state once you loose it (and/or letting go the dislike of non-pristine states). 

Hope this helps!

Pepe  

Thanks for the models, but I came here because I was overloaded with models, not because I wanted more haha. Each practitioner is going to see somewhat differently...

Angelo Dilulo has replied, I'm going to try out what he says for a bit. 

It would be cool if you keep us posted on how you get along with it all.
Maybe start a meditation log if you are up for it?

I have 20 books to publish and an ongoing visa situation, don't really have time for a meditation log lol. 

Thanks for all the help thus far. Angelo advises looking into sensation, I'll try that. 

I post about my progress on Reddit if anyone is interested.