Origins of the POI

Martin, geändert vor 28 Tagen at 28.05.24 10:57
Created 28 Tagen ago at 28.05.24 10:57

Origins of the POI

Beiträge: 888 Beitrittsdatum: 25.04.20 Neueste Beiträge
I hope Adi doesn't mind me replying to his reply to me about the POI in a new thread.

Adi said:

The progress of insight map shows up in the patisambhidamagga in a crude form. This work is usually attributed to the arhat Sariputta. This is part of the tipitaka and is considered canon.

The patisambhidamagga isnt structured as a description of meditative maps and thus references to the meditative 'knowledges' are not accompanied by detailed descriptions like Buddhaghosa's work.

There are a few suttas attributed to Siddharth Gautam that allude to meditative progressions. Being suttas they are highly compressed and have sketchy detailing.

​​​​​​​One sutta I can immediately think of is the rathavinita sutta - the relay of chariots.

Thanks. I didn't know any of that. It seems that, although it is in the Theravada canon, the patisambhidamagga is considered to have been composed somewhere between two hundred and seven hundred years after the life of Sariputta but that does not mean that it cannot reflect his teachings. Also, I agree with Rob Bubea who said that, if you are studying astrology today, you wouldn't give more credence to what Copernicus said, just because he said it first. In fact, later work, which builds on what has gone before, is often better. 

I had not read the Rathavinita sutta before. Thanks for the tip.

"In the same way, my friend, purity in terms of virtue is simply for the sake of purity in terms of mind. Purity in terms of mind is simply for the sake of purity in terms of view. Purity in terms of view is simply for the sake of purity in terms of the overcoming of perplexity. Purity in terms of the overcoming of perplexity is simply for the sake of purity in terms of knowledge & vision of what is & is not the path. Purity in terms of knowledge & vision of what is & is not the path is simply for the sake of purity in terms of knowledge & vision of the way. Purity in terms of knowledge & vision of the way is simply for the sake of purity in terms of knowledge & vision. Purity in terms of knowledge & vision is simply for the sake of total Unbinding through lack of clinging. And it's for the sake of total Unbinding through lack of clinging that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One."

Nice! This is definitely a progression, and it is also definitely different from the POI. The gradual training also comes to mind. My take away is that incremental progress was established early in the Buddhist tradition and various different paths and stages are described so there is good reason to train with the aim of progress in stages but no reason to disregard different paths or even sudden awakening, which also has a strong showing in the canons. 
Adi Vader, geändert vor 28 Tagen at 28.05.24 12:04
Created 28 Tagen ago at 28.05.24 12:04

RE: Origins of the POI

Beiträge: 324 Beitrittsdatum: 29.06.20 Neueste Beiträge
This work by matara nanarama thera connects the rathavinita sutta, the patisambhidamagga, and the PoI stages referencing the visuddhimagga.

https://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/bm7insight.pdf

​​​​​​​Its an easy read if one is by nature geeky
Martin, geändert vor 28 Tagen at 28.05.24 13:18
Created 28 Tagen ago at 28.05.24 13:18

RE: Origins of the POI

Beiträge: 888 Beitrittsdatum: 25.04.20 Neueste Beiträge
Very cool! Thanks.

I will be honest and say that the claim than the nine nanas from A&P to Conformity are subsections of Knowledge and Vision of the Way is a bit of a stretch in terms of attribution. Those nanas constitute about 90% of the path for most of the people posting here.

I'm not really geeky enough to map those two maps to each other in the first place but for those who are, it's a cool text. 

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