Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist? - Discussion
Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
Anton,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-23 下午11:40
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-23 下午11:36
Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 55 加入日期: 19-11-30 最近的帖子
Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
Has work been done already to create a flow chart for diagnosing? Eg.
It could be based on axiomatic type questions like...
"Do you believe you can observe two sensations at the same time?"
Yes --> go here
No --> go here
....
"Do you believe the present moment has inherent existence?"
etc.
...
And so on...
Thoughts?
Has work been done already to create a flow chart for diagnosing? Eg.
It could be based on axiomatic type questions like...
"Do you believe you can observe two sensations at the same time?"
Yes --> go here
No --> go here
....
"Do you believe the present moment has inherent existence?"
etc.
...
And so on...
Thoughts?
Dodge E Knees,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-24 上午2:53
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-24 上午2:53
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 74 加入日期: 11-9-25 最近的帖子shargrol,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-24 上午5:43
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-24 上午5:43
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 2654 加入日期: 16-2-8 最近的帖子
Whoever comes up with the flow chart will have essentially created artificial intelligence and finally all of us meditation teachers won't have to work anymore! Looking forward to that!
Chris M,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-24 上午8:16
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-24 上午8:16
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 5404 加入日期: 13-1-26 最近的帖子
Is this close enough for ya'll?
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/506fcc5c84aefb9a79a610b3/1349504092518/Pathways.jpg
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/506fcc5c84aefb9a79a610b3/1349504092518/Pathways.jpg
Anton,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-24 下午12:30
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-24 下午12:30
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 55 加入日期: 19-11-30 最近的帖子Dodge E Knees:
Yeah, agreed... this is the best I've seen. Definitely wishing it was encoded , sophisticated with more logic via flow chart. In fact, I find it quite odd that it isn't, given how many teachers there are and how much time is spent doing other stuff. But perhaps, historically, this is just the first time the environment has been right... with pragmatic forums like this one and the internet to collaborate.
Anton,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-24 下午12:35
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-24 下午12:35
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 55 加入日期: 19-11-30 最近的帖子shargrol:
Whoever comes up with the flow chart will have essentially created artificial intelligence and finally all of us meditation teachers won't have to work anymore! Looking forward to that!
A flow chart is definitely in that direction, but in practice is no replacement for humans. Although the military does have a robot that produces "scent molecules" that increases soldiers trust in it... having these things teach us Dharma is at least a couple decades away. However for now, a nice flow chart would be acceptable.
If you want to know the truth, I was planning to use it for training an AI model, so you caught me
Anton,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-24 下午12:36
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-24 下午12:36
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 55 加入日期: 19-11-30 最近的帖子Chris Marti:
Is this close enough for ya'll?
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/506fcc5c84aefb9a79a610b3/1349504092518/Pathways.jpg
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/506fcc5c84aefb9a79a610b3/1349504092518/Pathways.jpg
While a very excellent flow chart which this community revolves around, it has different purpose from the one I desire.
Chris M,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-25 上午9:01
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-25 上午9:01
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 5404 加入日期: 13-1-26 最近的帖子
Anton, do you really think a flow chart would help? I'm thinking not, because the universe of human capabilities and outcomes when it comes to the practice of the dharma is likely infinite. The flow chart might have more decision trees than there are elementary particles in the universe. It might be accurate but impossible to use in a practical sense.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Bardo,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-25 上午9:10
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-25 上午9:10
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 263 加入日期: 19-9-14 最近的帖子Anton:
Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
Has work been done already to create a flow chart for diagnosing? Eg.
It could be based on axiomatic type questions like...
"Do you believe you can observe two sensations at the same time?"
Yes --> go here
No --> go here
....
"Do you believe the present moment has inherent existence?"
etc.
...
And so on...
Thoughts?
Has work been done already to create a flow chart for diagnosing? Eg.
It could be based on axiomatic type questions like...
"Do you believe you can observe two sensations at the same time?"
Yes --> go here
No --> go here
....
"Do you believe the present moment has inherent existence?"
etc.
...
And so on...
Thoughts?
Here's the same map but with a walkthrough by Daniel. Click.
Noah D,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-27 上午12:02
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-26 下午11:56
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist? (答复)
帖子: 1211 加入日期: 16-9-1 最近的帖子
this link has the one chris posted + daniel's a&p diagnosis map -
https://www.integrateddaniel.info/mind-maps
this link has Daniel's graphs of how the nana's compare against different characteristics -
https://www.integrateddaniel.info/graphs
here are the insight stages diagnostic table, which is prob what OP is looking for -
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/5475825de4b0ac156d2453a4/1416987229931/Nanas+and+jhanas+tablep1.pdf
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/54758268e4b0ac156d2453d5/1416987240860/Nanas+and+jhanas+tablep2.pdf
and lastly his TMI chart - https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/5cea7c8353450a42d3f54e14/1558871241135/TMI+Mind+Map+PGN+copy.png
https://www.integrateddaniel.info/mind-maps
this link has Daniel's graphs of how the nana's compare against different characteristics -
https://www.integrateddaniel.info/graphs
here are the insight stages diagnostic table, which is prob what OP is looking for -
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/5475825de4b0ac156d2453a4/1416987229931/Nanas+and+jhanas+tablep1.pdf
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/54758268e4b0ac156d2453d5/1416987240860/Nanas+and+jhanas+tablep2.pdf
and lastly his TMI chart - https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/5cea7c8353450a42d3f54e14/1558871241135/TMI+Mind+Map+PGN+copy.png
Daniel M Ingram,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-27 下午2:14
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-27 下午2:14
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 3277 加入日期: 09-4-20 最近的帖子
Yeah, while I can definitely see a need for one, so try this on for size:
Question 1: Able to practic well without being overcome by hindrances, including map obsession?
Yes: Keep paying attention to the sensations of this moment, including thoughts about maps, noticing them as experiences that come and go.
No: Identify hindrance (anger/hatred, doubt, restlessness and worry, sloth and torpor, sensual desire, etc.) and apply standard remedies, and, once accomplished, return to Question 1.
Practice well!
Daniel
Question 1: Able to practic well without being overcome by hindrances, including map obsession?
Yes: Keep paying attention to the sensations of this moment, including thoughts about maps, noticing them as experiences that come and go.
No: Identify hindrance (anger/hatred, doubt, restlessness and worry, sloth and torpor, sensual desire, etc.) and apply standard remedies, and, once accomplished, return to Question 1.
Practice well!
Daniel
Anton,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-28 上午12:29
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-28 上午12:29
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 55 加入日期: 19-11-30 最近的帖子Chris Marti:
Anton, do you really think a flow chart would help? I'm thinking not, because the universe of human capabilities and outcomes when it comes to the practice of the dharma is likely infinite. The flow chart might have more decision trees than there are elementary particles in the universe. It might be accurate but impossible to use in a practical sense.
What do you think?
What do you think?
I think we can go first-principle and ask axiomatic questions, and really boil things down to a model that works well. In a way the koan system is quite close but is can be optimized to be more pragmatic and data-influenced.
Anton,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-28 上午12:32
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-28 上午12:32
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 55 加入日期: 19-11-30 最近的帖子Noah D:
this link has the one chris posted + daniel's a&p diagnosis map ...
Thanks Noah, this is a nice collection of resources, and definitely enough for me to mull over for the time.
Anton,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-28 上午11:36
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-28 上午11:36
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 55 加入日期: 19-11-30 最近的帖子Daniel M. Ingram:
Yeah, while I can definitely see a need for one, so try this on for size:
Question 1: Able to practic well without being overcome by hindrances, including map obsession?
Yes: Keep paying attention to the sensations of this moment, including thoughts about maps, noticing them as experiences that come and go.
No: Identify hindrance (anger/hatred, doubt, restlessness and worry, sloth and torpor, sensual desire, etc.) and apply standard remedies, and, once accomplished, return to Question 1.
Practice well!
Daniel
Question 1: Able to practic well without being overcome by hindrances, including map obsession?
Yes: Keep paying attention to the sensations of this moment, including thoughts about maps, noticing them as experiences that come and go.
No: Identify hindrance (anger/hatred, doubt, restlessness and worry, sloth and torpor, sensual desire, etc.) and apply standard remedies, and, once accomplished, return to Question 1.
Practice well!
Daniel
I like it. It's like the "return to breath" loop but dry with hindrance identification and on-the-fly remedies.
I've made a quick flow chart, http://prntscr.com/qgvknz
Do you think discern and focus are ideal bounds? As I see in your master chart, the left side is for concentration stage and right for vipassana. Do you think during practice it is right to boil it down to "the mind discerns" and "the mind focuses" and any remedy or meditation style is on some spectrum between these two.
Noah D,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-28 下午4:38
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-28 下午4:38
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 1211 加入日期: 16-9-1 最近的帖子
At an earlier point in my practice, I made this chart related to different antidotes:
Nick O,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-28 下午5:17
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-28 下午5:17
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 317 加入日期: 17-11-5 最近的帖子Noah D:
At an earlier point in my practice, I made this chart related to different antidotes:
Noah,
Do you mind unpacking your "good enough" rule?
tamaha,修改在4 年前。 at 19-12-28 下午11:48
Created 4 年 ago at 19-12-28 下午11:48
RE: Dharma Overground Diagnostic Flow Chart -- Does it exist?
帖子: 62 加入日期: 17-5-17 最近的帖子
Thanks for this Noah!
What do you exactly mean when you say "smile into bottomless pit "?
Also, what according to you are downsides of lust?
What do you exactly mean when you say "smile into bottomless pit "?
Also, what according to you are downsides of lust?